The controversy surrounding the potential world-record Johnny King Buck just got a lot more interesting.
After Deer & Deer Hunting broke Duncan Dobie’s story about the dispute surrounding the Johnny King Buck, Boone & Crockett Club officials issued a statement saying they believed the buck was a nontypical because the buck’s right "G3" was offset from the main line of the main beam.
In a statement posted today on its website, B&C now claims the right antler does not a have G3, but "an abnormal point that rises off of the G2."
Confused? You’re not alone.
In an interview with D&DH this afternoon, 30-year certified B&C scorer Ron Boucher said he thinks the club is wrestling with its worst scoring problem in 35 years — and is going about it the wrong way.
"I still believe strongly in what the Boone and Crockett Club stands for, but I just believe Jack Reneau is wrong on this deer — using the words of the official measurer’s manual," said Boucher.
He also had strong words for many of the individuals who have posted comments on blogs, forums and article links.
"These people claim to be experts on scoring, but they are expressing opinions without ever having held the rack and scored it themselves. They simply don’t know what they’re talking about," Boucher said. "The point does not come off of the G-2. You cannot determine that from a photo. You have to put your hands on the rack. It is a common base-point [has the Figure-8 at the base line]. You ask any scorer who has actually put his hands on this rack, put masking tape to it and a straight edge, and 95 percent of them will tell you it passes the Figure 8 test as described in the Boone and Crockett scorer’s manual … and that it is a straight 6-by-6 typical all the way."
In its online article, B&C went on to state, "… it makes more sense to enter this deer as a non-typical at a score of roughly 217 points. However, this deer should end up being ranked among the top non-typicals of all-time from the book-dominating state of Wisconsin."
Boucher scoffed at that notion. "That is absolutely absurd," he said. "To say this is a 217-inch nontypical, you’re going to look ridiculous. Furthermore, there are probably more than two dozen deer from Wisconsin that netted more than 217."
Boucher is not the only prominent B&C scorer or whitetail expert who has handled the rack and expressed opinions that it should be scored as a typical or, at a minimum, be called in for a panel-scoring session. Others who have actually scored the rack include Marlin Laidlaw, Herm Feller and John Ramsey of the Wisconsin Buck & Bear Club, and Mike Handley of Buckmasters. Gordon Whittington of North American Whitetail has also inspected the rack on several occasions and has made recent statements that he believes it qualifies as a typical and should be panel-scored.
Click here to read the entire King Buck story from the beginning.
I have spoken to several scorers who insist there is a bias against any animal harvested in Wisconsin. This is just another example.Wisconsin blows the rest of the country away in whitetails and black bears. Many scorers just can’t handle the reality. Even Jim Shockey thinks the largest black bears are from western Canada. Please look at the Band C and P and Y maps and statistics.wisconsin is tops and people are in denial, including B and C measurers..
WOW, is all I can say at first. NOW, that I’m over the shock of reading about the stupidity of the b&c, I have a few choice words for them…
I have shot several bucks and bulls with my bow that will qualify for the b&c and p&y. I decided long ago that I would never allow my bucks or bulls into b&c or p&y.
Now about Mr Mitch Rompola. He was treated VERY WRONGLY by a lot of people, that knew nothing of his buck. I was in Colorado elk hunting the year after Mr Rompola shot his World Record Deer and I heard someone talking about how the Rompola buck was a fraud, . To make a long story short I asked him a few questions and he shut up.(I don’t know about you, BUT to me, the Rompola buck IS, THE WORLD RECORD, NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE SAYS) DEER AND DEER HUNTING reported several times on it and the buck was held by a lot of HONEST people. They all said it was legit. (I DON’T KNOW ABOUT YOU, BUT THAT’S GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME) They have intergrity, not b&c. I would have done the very same thing that Mr Rompola did, and not let anyone touch his deer. He doesn’t do it for the recognition He kept it quiet. I would too. The very next year, he shot a 180 typical. He has more deer that score over 170 with his bow than any person alive.
b&c will not receive any support from me and what I have been reading, had better make some drastic changes fast. If I did shoot the world record, b&c would NEVER EVEN HEAR ABOUT IT.
Here’s how I see it, the Rompola buck is the world record then #2 would be the King buck and #3 the Hanson buck. I’m waiting for the day when another buck that is a clean 5×5 breaks the world record.
Someone needs to develope another scoring system that scores a deer fairly and gives a true value for the rack grown. Hurry up, I’m waiting to put about 30 deer and 10 huge bulls in your book!!!
GO A WAY B&C
I think that the hunting magazines have given life to a controversy that should not exist and unfairly demonized the B&C club and its officials. Even Gordon Whittington said the first time he saw this buck, in person, he figured the point was not typical. Now, who’s changing their tune. Even from the picture above, it is clear that the point is not typical. Yet, I say let the buck be panel scored. But, if it is judged to be typical, get ready for more bucks to come out of the woodwork.
The buck and rack were amazing its to bad B&C cant get their story straight and give the hunter his due for taking such an animal. I’ve taken over 50 big bucks (none quite that big) in MN and I would be leary of getting one scoured after reading this article.
Blackball B & C ….
I’ve got to concur with B&C on this, based on the photos in their article. In my opinion, the so-called typical "G3" everyone is wringing their hands over does indeed appear to come off the base of the "G2" and is therefore simply a very typical non-typical point. Those who believe there is a B&C conspiracy here or that efforts are being made to cover up for a scoring mistake that Jack Reneau originally made are questioning the ingreity of a club whose scoring system has been in place for years and remains the benchmark and standard repository for thousands and thousands of North American trophies. There are lots of differences of opinion but sour grapes here for Johnny King is nothing more than that…sour grapes.
I don’t know Jack Reneau or anybody at B&C, but I think hunting magazines have given life to this controversy and should admit an error in judgment. Even Gordon Whittington said that when he first saw the rack, in person, that he figured it would be a non-typical point. Even the picture above shows clearly this is not a typical point. Nevertheless, let him be officially panel scored and end this conversation, but if scored as a typical get ready for a bunch more to come out of obscurity.
How many here have read the "LATEST" B&C stance????….read it and educate yourself
http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&drKey=1072&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fhuntingindiana.proboards.com%2Findex.cgi%3Fboard%3Ddeerhunting%26action%3Ddisplay%26thread%3D37696%26page%3D2&v=1&libid=1307805960813&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.boone-crockett.org%2Fnews%2Ffeatured_story.asp%3Farea%3Dnews%26ID%3D107&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fhuntingindiana.proboards.com%2Findex.cgi%3Faction%3Dnewestthreads&title=HUNTING%20INDIANA%20-%20New%20World%20Record%20Buck%20Covered%20up%3F&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.boone-crockett.org%2Fnews%2Ffeatured_story.asp%3Farea%3Dnews%26amp%3BID%3D107
Should there be an investigation between Reneau and Milo Hanson – is there some connection ?
It is too late for BC now. Reneau made a mistake in not having this Buck panel scored and then providing his OPINION on the rules and how it is measured. At this point there will never be a fair and unbiased panel that could score this deer. BC needs to review thier rules and consider a policy where ANY buck who’s score is withing a certain percentage of a new No. 1 Buck (Typical or Non) should immediately be scheduled for Panel Scoring without the original score or opinion on the original scorer provided. The fact that Reneau scored this buck announced his opinion and denied a Panel score just goes to show that the organization has given to much power to one individual and this is the result. It is a sad day for those who truly believe in the Moral and Ethical values of hunting when an organization such as BC comes to this.
This is a problem that is very big and beginging to run in wider circles than just world classbucks . It would seem opinions and personal feeling and yes even jelousy is causeing more than its share of improporly scored bucks accross the country at shows an by unsavory supposed profesionals at all levels of the these clubs . And we must remeber that is all these are are in most instance silly little clubs of hunters who worship antlers.
Most of hese people who score for the clubs stand to either loose a few positions or someone they know will fall down the big buck rolls if there is a top notch buck taken anywhere. And lets not forget the financial end to this saga. As new top record book bucks bring in many dollars for the owners at deer shows and the like . dont forget the court case over the Rompala buck that was all about the all mighty dollar in the end . That same deer/owner still sets on the top spot does he not !!
lets not forget that the man scoreing this buck is a small time politician in a very very small private club that continues to loose its relivance too most deer hunters in this country at a fevered pitched pace . Also he has shown himself with every twist to be very much out of touch with reality and the stories he /they release just keep contradicting the previous one . In my part of the world that is called crawfishing !!
The days of stuffy old men behind closed doors setting the hunting rules , picking whos bucks are world class trophies ,and pushing thier version of hunting ethics that effect every hunter is dying rapidly.
We as hunters have become educated in most if not all respects of hunting, and desire to be in charge of our own hunting future,have direct say in the rules that govern our hunts and desire to manage the animals we hunt.And rightly so B&C or clubs like it are not the end all say all of hunting or deer hunting and nor should they be .
The wepons ,hunting methods,advanced nature of equipment, and the vast numbers of the animals we now hunt compaired to that of the B&C founders times ,as well as the much artificially inhanced/managed version of the animals "Buck DEER in this case" that came before them in the books make the books irrelivant in most areas and are nothing more than history books at best.
MR . Renue do yourself , and the deer hunting world a favor just stop making stupid contradicting statments to save your credibility because you have lost any you ever had .
STEP DOWN and just go away and maybe B&C can rgain a small portion of its former glory but I doubt it!
When reading how "ONE" man tries to rule to his "OWN" ideals, when supposedly representing a group of ppl. as a whole. I wonder if Reneau is related to the WI. Gov.
i am no scorer nor have i ever held a rack of that size. i just wanted to commend D&DH on the very through covering of this story and keeping what seems to be very current on this. you all are like a news channel for the whitetail hunter and i LOVE it. this is why your magazine is the top magazine by far!!! well done all involved!!!
Let the panel be the judge,then what ever it is stands.
WATER DISPLACEMENT!!!!!! Plain and simple! No width measure, and absolutly no deductions for natural growth that leads to overall size!
I think that Renue needs to man up, and tell the truth. He screwed up and needs to have it scored in public.
This is a great buck. No doubt it should be scored as a typical.When a buck is a true non-typical there is no doubt in it what so ever.No controversey..On the other hand the shooter doesnt even own the rack. So if it wasnt important enough to the actual shooter. Who cares either way.If I shot that buck,it would be buried with me.A sad situation for a true American giant.
This whole situation is appalling, in my opinion. What is so obvious, is that Reneau clearly made a mistake and is not man enough to admit it. I am no scoring expert by any means, but am a veteran bowhunter. Don’t you think that a buck of this magnitute, with a controversy over perhaps only centimeters, that B&C would allow this deer it’s fair shake by a panel of some of the best scorers in the world? Well you would think so. I have defended B&C on several occasions in the past when I have heard people say they are through with their scoring system, and either use Buckmasters scoring system, or refuse to put official tape on the antlers. I am embarrassed that I once called myself a B&C supporter. The only way I will ever again consider B&C as a reputable organization, is if they immediately relieve Jack Reneau of his duties and offer a formal apolgy to Johnny King and have the deer panel scored without Reneau’s presence or opinion. Then, offer a formal apolgy to the ever so populated "Whitetail Nation", for B&C’s childish and unethical actions surrounding this deer. Until then, they are a respectable organization no more than the likes of Enron… With that said, kudos to D&DH for their break on this story. They ARE a respectable and admirable organization, and I will continue to support their publications. Without question they are the most informative authority on whitetails, in publication today.
Hey– Buckmasters, be ready for a big bunch of new Bucks to measure
Is it just that everyone wants a new world record because the old one has stood to long. Poor old Milo must be just sitting back chewing off his finger nails eh! He hasn’t had this much air time in a long time. Is it a great buck? No doubt about it. Is it a world record? Not according to the people we trust to tell us. I have only seen the rack in photos but if you look at the G3 it is definatley off set. If this is the criteria that is used to score the buck as non-typical then it is non-typical. Still lets let this poor buck rest in piece either as the new record or just a hell of a buck. panel score it and get it over with. I can’t afford all the timeIi spend reading about it when I should be cutting the grass…….