Dan's Question of the Week: Crossbows

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JPH
 
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RE: Dan's Question of the Week: Crossbows

Postby JPH » Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:57 am

ORIGINAL: Dan Salmon

So, If I'm summarizing correctly, what it comes down to is, we want more hunters and hunter opportunity, but we don't want it to marginalize our hunting experiences. 

In essence, yes, but not in my backyard.  Maybe we should just call a spade a spade and say we don't want new hunters because it's allowing our hunting to be much better without them.


Well yes, you have me pegged to a degree. But I bet if we turn this argument on you we might find that you have your own limits as well.

I suspect that we all have things about hunting that we'd like to see stay just as they are. If not, do you mind telling me where your favorite stand is and when you like to hunt from it? May I have permission to hang a stand nearby? After all, I'd love to come to Wisconsin to do a little hunting and since you already have a favorite spot picked out...? Yes, it is an extreme example, but you get my point.

Part of the charm of bow season in Iowa is that it remains a quiet, low pressure season. Anyone is welcome to join, but they first have to develop basic archery skills or prove to a doctor that they are impaired to the point that it would be impossible or unhealthy to do so. I don't view my position on crossbows to be exclusive. Rather, I view it as an invitation to become an archer (I've helped more than a few to get into it). If this is not a good fit for a hunter, fine. We have a number of gun seasons to chose from.

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fasteddie
 
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RE: Dan's Question of the Week: Crossbows

Postby fasteddie » Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:56 am

I have never been in favor of Crossbows but i'm starting to see the light . I think if they made them legal in New York State I would plop down $1500 and buy a Bowtech Stryker capable of shooting a bolt at 405 fps . I could quit my weekly practice sessions and do a little shooting a week or so before hunting season . The Stryker with it's 1X dot scope is capable of softball sized groups at 100 yards . Bring it on !
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Woods Walker
 
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RE: Dan's Question of the Week: Crossbows

Postby Woods Walker » Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:07 pm

I have never been in favor of compounds but i'm starting to see the light . I think if they made them legal in New York State I would plop down $1500 and buy a Mathews capable of shooting an arrow at 300 fps . I could quit my daily practice sessions with my recurve and do a little shooting a week or so before hunting season. I don't even have to draw the bow that much because it has 80% let off, and a ball bearing trigger release so my nasty fingers don't even have to come in contact with the bowstring! The Mathews with it's 1X dot scope is capable of softball sized groups at 100 yards . Bring it on !

Cuts both ways...doesn't it?[;)]
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fasteddie
 
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RE: Dan's Question of the Week: Crossbows

Postby fasteddie » Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:18 pm

Cuts both ways ?

My son called Bowtech 2 years ago and asked why they didn't have magnification on their scopes and was told " the guys at the plant could go out and shoot softball size groups with the 1X scope and didn't need any magnification " .
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The Future of the Horizontal Bow

From the July 2006 Whitetail Journal Magazine

An interview with Ottie Snyder ( media specialist with Horton Manufacturing )

WJ -- Why have we seen such an increase in the number of states that permit the use of crossbows during bow season or have special crossbow seasons for whitetail hunters ?

Snyder -- Hunter numbers continue to decrease , however the crossbow is fairly easy for even a beginning archer to become extremely proficient with in a very short time . Youngsters , women and people who have never considered shooting a vertical bow can enjoy a crossbow and begin to hunt quickly . Too , older hunters who can't pull vertical bows any longer have found they can hunt effectively with a crossbow .

WJ -- What's another reason we've seen the crossbow grow in popularity ?

Snyder -- White-tailed deer numbers continue to increase nationwide , especially in Urban areas where hunting isn't permitted . We're seeing more deer/car accidents and landscapes like expensive shrubs being eaten by deer . Where gun hunting is unacceptable in suburbs , both bow and crossbow hunting can be safely used to help reduce deer numbers even in the most populated areas .

WJ -- What seems to be the largest section of the hunting population that's starting to utilize the crossbow ?

Snyder -- So far , it looks to be youth and women . But we're also seeing a number of Urban upper -echelon management hunters who spend five or six days a week at the office and have had to give up archery because they're so busy and don't have enough practice time to be proficient with vertical bows . But , a hunter can zero in a crossbow in 30 minutes and then be ready to hunt , without having to practice for hours like he or she will with a longbow . Today , people are so busy that when they have the opportunity to go hunting , even if they havn't had time to practice to be proficient , the crossbow will still meet their needs .

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I cannot speak for Mathews as I don't know what their claims are ..........
Semper Fi !

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Woods Walker
 
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RE: Dan's Question of the Week: Crossbows

Postby Woods Walker » Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:57 pm

C'mon Edward, you know what I mean. What you just said about the crossbow can also be said (and WAS said...and in some places is STILL being said) about compound bows by "traditional Taliban" archers.

In fact, with the compound, it's presence DID acutally increase the numbers of bowhunters in the woods. So far, all states that have legalized crossbows have NOT seen this number rise.

I just don't understand how what archery tackle someone else chooses to use should even concern you in the least, as long as it doesn't infringe on your hunting. What business is it of yours whether they choose to hold 0% draw weight, 20% draw weight, or 100%...because that's the only real difference. And a with a compound you are only holding 20% more than a crossbow, as opposed to the stickbow that holds 100% more. Your compound is MUCH closer to a crossbow than a stickbow is, and yet you degrade it as a form of archery.

Everything that you can say about a crossbow, can also be said by a traditional archer about your compound.  Like I said....cuts both ways.....
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Waste Nothing,

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Dan Salmon
 
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RE: Dan's Question of the Week: Crossbows

Postby Dan Salmon » Mon Jun 07, 2010 5:17 pm

JPH,

More power to you.  I say come to Wisconsin and hunt.  I'll show you where I hunt, all the places and invite you to hunt there if you like.  It's all public land and I have been sharing it with others for years.  I've got dozens of places to hunt some better than others, but always seem to find an open option. 

I enjoy hunting for lots of different reasons.  I guess one of them is not necessarily my own place to hunt.  I enjoy being able to figure out how to outsmart deer in pressured areas. 

I've never owned my own hunting property and probably never will, I guess that probably makes a difference in our attitudes about things too.  I just don't get all bent out of shape about somethings like I used to.  Looking back, other hunters in the same area I was hunting have probably helped as much as they have hurt my hunting over the years.

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shaman
 
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RE: Dan's Question of the Week: Crossbows

Postby shaman » Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:16 am

If y'all remember, I finally went out and bought a crossbow last year and documented the experience.   I had 25 years in as a compound bow hunter before my shoulder went south.  I was looking at my 3rd season without a bow, and decided to give the crossbow a try. 

I started hunting in Ohio back in the early 80's with a compound.  Even in those days, crossbows bows were given equal footing with other archery equipment in that state.  I never felt any real detriment by sharing the woods with crossbow hunters.  In fact, I never ran into one. 

I moved my hunting exclusively to Kentucky in 2000, and KY has only recently extended crossbows a modicum of parity to other archery methods.  I'm hunting on a medical waiver, so I can use the crossbow anytime a normal archer can.  However, KY normally limits crossbow to a narrower season-- excluding crossbows from the rut as an example.

As a long time bow hunter, I admit to having my head filled with all sorts of goo regarding crossbow.  I'd heard they had the power and accuracy of rifles, that they were not sporting, etc. etc.  The reality was far less.  They're about equal to a compound bow.  Mine is a good 20 yard bow, 30's fine, 40's pushing it. The accuracy is so-so.  I was able to get reasonable groups with mine, but nothing like what I could do with my compound.    The big drawback is that you are screwed on follow-up shots.  Esthetically, the crossbow seemed like the klugiest thing I'd ever handled.   Practice?  Yeah, I didn't have to practice much to get a consistent shot. 

Mine has scope on it.  My eyes are going the same way as my shoulder.  If the shoulder had not stopped me, I was rapidly coming to a point where I could not focus on the pins and the deer well enough to get a shot.  I had tried a red dot scope on the bow, and not been impressed.  The scope on the crossbow is a mixed blessing.  It gives me a good clear sight picture, but it lowers my peripheral awareness.  I missed on a good 10 pointer this past season, because my bolt glanced off an overhanging branch.  If I'd had the compound bow, I'm sure I'd have seen the branch and compensated.  Oh well.  I had fun.

All in all, I'm not impressed with my crossbow in comparison to my compound.  However, I guess I'm still thinking like a Buckeye:  crossbows don't deserve any special treatment. They should have the run of the woods same as other archery equipment-- take it from an old cripple of a bow hunter.
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JPH
 
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RE: Dan's Question of the Week: Crossbows

Postby JPH » Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:56 am

ORIGINAL: Dan Salmon

JPH,

More power to you.  I say come to Wisconsin and hunt.  I'll show you where I hunt, all the places and invite you to hunt there if you like.  It's all public land and I have been sharing it with others for years.  I've got dozens of places to hunt some better than others, but always seem to find an open option. 

I enjoy hunting for lots of different reasons.  I guess one of them is not necessarily my own place to hunt.  I enjoy being able to figure out how to outsmart deer in pressured areas. 

I've never owned my own hunting property and probably never will, I guess that probably makes a difference in our attitudes about things too.  I just don't get all bent out of shape about somethings like I used to.  Looking back, other hunters in the same area I was hunting have probably helped as much as they have hurt my hunting over the years.

 
Good post Dan! I respect your laid back approach. I prefer to be alone, but that's me.
 

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RE: Dan's Question of the Week: Crossbows

Postby scottflesher » Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:43 am

I see all perspectives. Originally when I began bowhunting in the early 90's, I was young and wasn't as serious as I am now and I used a crossbow. Eventually I fell in love with hunting and converted to a compound and I would never go back to a crossbow. Had I not had the opportunity to begin bowhunting with a crossbow that required alot less practice, I may have never become involved with bowhunting.
I do agree that medical reasons and perhaps aging hunters should have the option, but I also agree with JPH's comments from an earlier post about the serenity of the bowhunting landscape changing if the weapons used becomes to liberal.

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RE: Dan's Question of the Week: Crossbows

Postby motorbreaker » Mon Jun 21, 2010 2:00 pm

Chances are that someday you will have no choice but to shoot
a crossbow if you want to bowhunt, I never thought I would shoot
a crossbow eighter, But shoulder pain and a numb elbow later.
I'm not ashaimed to use one. Heck i'm even more effichent with
the x bow. And I dont have to judge my yardage 20 30 40 anymore.
Anyway, Its none of your buissnesswhat I hunt with, No pun intented. Jake

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