Should Woman Be Jailed for Killing Fawn?

Discuss articles and commentaries from our recent issues!
User avatar
69Viking
 
Posts: 766
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:26 am

RE: Should Woman Be Jailed for Killing Fawn?

Postby 69Viking » Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:19 am

ORIGINAL: CB on the run

If granny has the ability to smash the brains out of a fawn's head that on June 15th was drinking nothing more than mothers milk, then she has enough anger issues to go after someone's child for throwing a ball against her car or house. Granny needs professional help and probably has some prior hidden history.

CB


Well put!

User avatar
buckhunter21
 
Posts: 2981
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:28 pm

RE: Should Woman Be Jailed for Killing Fawn?

Postby buckhunter21 » Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:40 am

Yea I heard about this yesterday as well and posted the link on the general discussion forum.
 
IMO, yes, she should be jailed.  Ok she's ok, but is that a fair excuse?  It didnt' say she was senial did it?  I think whatever someone half her age would get, is what she should get as well.  I mean come on, afraid that the fawn would hurt her, etc?  That's ridiculous!
QDM!

NEW61375
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:55 am

RE: Should Woman Be Jailed for Killing Fawn?

Postby NEW61375 » Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:44 am

ORIGINAL: CB on the run

If granny has the ability to smash the brains out of a fawn's head that on June 15th was drinking nothing more than mothers milk, then she has enough anger issues to go after someone's child for throwing a ball against her car or house. Granny needs professional help and probably has some prior hidden history.

CB

 
That's quite a stretch, but if you say so.  What if granny was smashing a racoon in her trash or a squirrel in her bird feeder or a possum in her garage or a groundhog/rabbit in her garden?  I'm sure everyone would be all torn up about that too.  Not!  It's the full blown Bambi syndrome on a hunting site, it's amusing to me to think of a the hardened hunters out there full of disdain for this old lady for killing a critter eating her garden/flowers whatever it was.
 
Sure there were probably better ways to handle it but she didn't choose them so find her guilty of her MISDEMEANOR, fine her, and find some real news to talk about or better yet some real criminals in that state to punish.

Squirrelhawker
 
Posts: 413
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:00 am

RE: Should Woman Be Jailed for Killing Fawn?

Postby Squirrelhawker » Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:15 am

Actually, IME not so big a stretch as it appears.
 
I work in the animal medicine/welfare field and there are bucket loads of data that indicate people who perpetrate acts of violence against animals usually have a history, or will have one.
 
I'm hip to your reference to the bambi syndrome BUT, she did not swat a fly or even chop a snake in half with that shovel. She beat a young defenseless mammal to death. Before someone yells out "species elitist" let me 'splain.
 
Most humans of all demographics, even those with concrete firmly under their feet will, at the sight of a fawn, display or express some sort of concern/delight/empathy or other positive interest in the animal. Their initial reaction will not be to bludgeon it to death. I get paid to treat injured wildlife, deal with the people who find and or interefere with it, and when possible educate them. This event was not anywhere near normal.
 
This was not hunting nor nuisance control.
 
As for hardened hunters, most are also compassionate at least on some level when it comes to animals. It is the way of things. I hunt with gun bow and hawk. My fangs are as sharp as any on this list. But when the day comes that I feel nothing when game is brought down, that day I will hang up my weapons of war and turn the bird loose.

hilltop
 
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 4:35 am

RE: Should Woman Be Jailed for Killing Fawn?

Postby hilltop » Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:24 am

I will have to agree with the Bambi syndrome. It's the image of this poor little baby creature being MURDERED by Granny, in the garden, with a shovel, did anyone get a visual ? I believe the original question was does granny deserve jail time .To this I say no, for it is a deer, not a child or even someones pet.

NEW61375
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:55 am

RE: Should Woman Be Jailed for Killing Fawn?

Postby NEW61375 » Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:09 am

ORIGINAL: Squirrelhawker

Actually, IME not so big a stretch as it appears.

I work in the animal medicine/welfare field and there are bucket loads of data that indicate people who perpetrate acts of violence against animals usually have a history, or will have one.

I'm hip to your reference to the bambi syndrome BUT, she did not swat a fly or even chop a snake in half with that shovel. She beat a young defenseless mammal to death. Before someone yells out "species elitist" let me 'splain.

Most humans of all demographics, even those with concrete firmly under their feet will, at the sight of a fawn, display or express some sort of concern/delight/empathy or other positive interest in the animal. Their initial reaction will not be to bludgeon it to death. I get paid to treat injured wildlife, deal with the people who find and or interefere with it, and when possible educate them. This event was not anywhere near normal.

This was not hunting nor nuisance control.

As for hardened hunters, most are also compassionate at least on some level when it comes to animals. It is the way of things. I hunt with gun bow and hawk. My fangs are as sharp as any on this list. But when the day comes that I feel nothing when game is brought down, that day I will hang up my weapons of war and turn the bird loose.


In regards to the highlighted above just a couple of thoughts.

Do hunters perpetrate acts of violence on animals?

She is 75 if she had a history I'm sure the media and her neighbors would have included that in their story.

This was not her initial reaction or first time encountering deer in her yard/garden.  It has been an ongoing problem for her for nearly 10 years according to the article.

I would say it was most definitely nuisance control, at least to her.  Deer ravaging her landscape for nearly a decade was probably a real nuisance.

From personal experience I can tell you that in areas of deer over population deer are most definitely considered a nuisance.  They will mow down gardens, shrubs, fruit. etc with ease.  I have seen and heard of farmers losing up to 25% - 30% of a crop to deer, that is some serious coin.   If you live in an area with these kind of deer populations then you are probably already aware that your car insurance rates can be as much as 15% higher than other areas and even if you don't care about the insurance rate you just might care when you are driving that brand new "pearl" of a truck you finally bought into work early one morning and you put a doe through the radiator you might even view those deer a litttle different, maybe consider them a nuisance.  Hopefully noone gets injured.  

Truth be told here these do gooder neighbors love to watch the deer, it's probably a real novelty to them.  They probably name them and feed them and tell all their friends how they can see deer right in their back yard.  Oops they forgot to mention that their 20 acre neighborhood and surrounding roads and conveniences all used to be woodlots or farmland and all of those deer have nowhere to go now, but hey aren't they cute.

That last part is hypothetical of course, I can't really say "truth be told" with any degree of certainty but I'd be willing to bet it's not too far off.

Squirrelhawker
 
Posts: 413
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:00 am

RE: Should Woman Be Jailed for Killing Fawn?

Postby Squirrelhawker » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:06 am

ORIGINAL: NEW61375

ORIGINAL: Squirrelhawker

Actually, IME not so big a stretch as it appears.

I work in the animal medicine/welfare field and there are bucket loads of data that indicate people who perpetrate acts of violence against animals usually have a history, or will have one.

I'm hip to your reference to the bambi syndrome BUT, she did not swat a fly or even chop a snake in half with that shovel. She beat a young defenseless mammal to death. Before someone yells out "species elitist" let me 'splain.

Most humans of all demographics, even those with concrete firmly under their feet will, at the sight of a fawn, display or express some sort of concern/delight/empathy or other positive interest in the animal. Their initial reaction will not be to bludgeon it to death. I get paid to treat injured wildlife, deal with the people who find and or interefere with it, and when possible educate them. This event was not anywhere near normal.

This was not hunting nor nuisance control.

As for hardened hunters, most are also compassionate at least on some level when it comes to animals. It is the way of things. I hunt with gun bow and hawk. My fangs are as sharp as any on this list. But when the day comes that I feel nothing when game is brought down, that day I will hang up my weapons of war and turn the bird loose.


In regards to the highlighted above just a couple of thoughts.

Do hunters perpetrate acts of violence on animals?

She is 75 if she had a history I'm sure the media and her neighbors would have included that in their story.

This was not her initial reaction or first time encountering deer in her yard/garden.  It has been an ongoing problem for her for nearly 10 years according to the article.

I would say it was most definitely nuisance control, at least to her.  Deer ravaging her landscape for nearly a decade was probably a real nuisance.

From personal experience I can tell you that in areas of deer over population deer are most definitely considered a nuisance.  They will mow down gardens, shrubs, fruit. etc with ease.  I have seen and heard of farmers losing up to 25% - 30% of a crop to deer, that is some serious coin.   If you live in an area with these kind of deer populations then you are probably already aware that your car insurance rates can be as much as 15% higher than other areas and even if you don't care about the insurance rate you just might care when you are driving that brand new "pearl" of a truck you finally bought into work early one morning and you put a doe through the radiator you might even view those deer a litttle different, maybe consider them a nuisance.  Hopefully noone gets injured.   



 
Hunting is not an act of violence. It is an act of responsible stewardship. And done as quickly as possible by the dictations of circumstance and skill.
 
The media does what it does and says the things that it says at the time when and where it thinks it will be served best. They never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
People can have deer related problems. The helpless fawn was not her problem. There are solutions to those problems and legal channels to enact those solutions.
 
11% of the 6000 phone calls I get each year are nuisance related. I have been down this road a time or two. Any nuisance problem, of any kind, involving any species, cannot and will not be solved by removal of that species. The keys lie in habitat modification and education. The exception in this that relates to deer would be landowner damage permits that allow the legal removal of females. But even then strict damage removal will not be the whole answer.

NEW61375
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:55 am

RE: Should Woman Be Jailed for Killing Fawn?

Postby NEW61375 » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:30 am

While there be no malice or ill will involved with the killing of a deer violence is certainly used:

Violence is the expression of physical force against self or other.

If you have ever finished a deer with a knife or follow up shot or some other method it is up close, hands on, and seems violent to me.  While killing one from 20 yards or 100 yards might seem less violent the end result is the same, you are physically ending the animals life.  And yes I feel empathy and compassion for all the game I take. 


I'm not sure what you are saying about the media but if this lady had some prior record or history of animal cruelty you can believe they would have used it to juice up their stories.  The fact that no such information is included leads me to believe it doesn't exist.

I don't question your experience on the topic of nuisance animals or your field of work I simply believe the lady was fed up with the deer, this little one was not smart enough to flee from her and she probably couldn't believe her good fortune of finally getting this close to one and took all of her frustrations from the past 10 years of her flower damage problem out on the fawn that didn't run.  I'm not saying it's right but it seems quite petty to me and imo not worthy of news and barely worthy of discussion.

Fine her, move on, and give me some real news please.

User avatar
ranwin33
 
Posts: 2110
Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 2:12 pm
Location: Kansas and Missouri

RE: Should Woman Be Jailed for Killing Fawn?

Postby ranwin33 » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:37 am

ORIGINAL: Squirrelhawker
... I work in the animal medicine/welfare field and there are bucket loads of data that indicate people who perpetrate acts of violence against animals usually have a history, or will have one.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, the data your citing in no way correlates to what this woman did.  A majority of those acts of violence tend to be animal torture or cruelty by teens, kids, and young adults that then manifests itself in later life in other ways.  Let's not throw her into that group, because what she did isn't the same - your attempt to link her to such is disingenuous at best.
 
And it is a stretch to say that because she can kill a deer, she then has enough anger issues to go after someone's child.  Or that she has a hidden history.  Nobody on this site has enough information about the lady to make those assumptions. 
“There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other that heat comes from the furnace.”
Aldo Leopold

retch sweeny
 
Posts: 565
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:05 am

RE: Should Woman Be Jailed for Killing Fawn?

Postby retch sweeny » Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Good grief!. What a waste of bandwidth. This is a non issue. My guess is that granny is still suffering from post traumatic stress since being run over by a raindeer, while walking home from our house Christmass eve. [:D][:D][:D]

P.S. When you see animals talking in the movies, that's not real.

I now return you to your hand ringing and knashing of teeth.

PreviousNext

Return to Deer & Deer Hunting Features

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests