Les Davenport-changed is belief?

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JeffB
 
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Les Davenport-changed is belief?

Postby JeffB » Sun Aug 17, 2008 3:55 pm

I found it very interesting in Les Davenports new article that he says that a trophy is in the eyes of the beholder and not to let others pressure you on what they think is a trophy.
 About 10 years ago I hunted a farm right by Les' in Brown Co Illinois. We were standing in the front yard of the house admiring my upper 120" buck that I shot with my bow. Les and a couple of his hunters (Les was guiding pay hunters) pulled up and got out of their truck to look at my deer. Les stood there and talk very negative about the size of it and told his hunters that they better not shoot something like that on his land. After making me feel like crap, they got in their truck and drove off. I understand if he was managing his land and didnt want a 120" shot, but he made me feel bad for killing the second largest deer of my life.
Dont get me wrong I dont have anything against Les except for him talking out of both sides of his mouth. I would rather him stick to what he thinks rather than just writing an article to make the money.

Highlander Archery
 
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RE: Les Davenport-changed is belief?

Postby Highlander Archery » Sun Aug 17, 2008 6:42 pm

Disparaging anyones trophy is not a good way to continue in business.

hunter480
 
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RE: Les Davenport-changed is belief?

Postby hunter480 » Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:18 pm

The negative experience you had is but one of the many spin-off issues that come from the obsession with antler size. It`s outrageous that anyone would criticize another hunter`s trophy, and simply shows the arrogance and contempt that antler-mania breeds. As I`ve said before, deer hunting as a whole, would be better served if we could just get back to "deer" hunting, and be mature enough to leave the bragging rights over the big racked bucks by the wayside.
 
By the way, congratulations on what sounds like a great deer.

msbadger
 
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RE: Les Davenport-changed is belief?

Postby msbadger » Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:25 am

It's too bad you had to suffer the ignorance of another hunter but congrats on your buck...remember any cleanly killed deer that you deemed to be good for you and taken in a good hunt.... utilized by you or yours is a trophy deer......

schlupis
 
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RE: Les Davenport-changed is belief?

Postby schlupis » Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:18 am

Kinda shoots the conclusion of his latest article all to pieces..

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JPH
 
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RE: Les Davenport-changed is belief?

Postby JPH » Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:21 am

To begin with, let's hope Mr. Davenport has turned over a new leaf. We all have room to grow.
 
But while we're on the subject, I admire your restraint on the day in question. Standing in someone's front yard and insulting their hard earned deer is a good way to loose a few teeth. [;)]
 
 

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JOEL
 
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RE: Les Davenport-changed is belief?

Postby JOEL » Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:53 am

agreed jph
"Go afield with a good attitude, with respect for the wildlife you hunt and for the forest and fields in which you walk. Immerse yourself in the outdoor experience. It will cleanse your soul and make you a better person." - Fred Bear

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Corey Graff
 
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RE: Les Davenport-changed is belief?

Postby Corey Graff » Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:32 am

Editor's note: This reply to the original post was provided by author Les Davenport this morning. We hope this helps clear the air on this topic. We would also like to remind all users to refrain from personal attacks on this forum.

Jeff B: First, I have no clue who you are or what I may have said to intimidate you in front of friends. Second, I would never -- even on my worst day -- have chastised you for shooting a "upper 120-inch buck," especially if it were not taken on my property or lease (which had a 125-inch minimum, and later a 130-inch minimum).

I do remember a hunter who was embarrassed about shooting a smaller buck. This hunter sadly commented that he was "never lucky enough to kill a true trophy." This implied that he was not satisfied with the buck he killed. Very sad! I may have taken the opportunity to tell that hunter (in a subtle, educational manner) that he was inhibiting his chances of ever killing a "true trophy" (his standards) by shooting immature bucks. If that hunter felt like "crap" in front of his friends, he probably felt that way before I ever came on the scene. He probably felt like "crap" because he also inhibited his friends from their chances of taking "a true trophy." If "my hunter" would have asked the fine-per-inch on that 115-inch buck, it's likely I would have answered that question. The fine, by the way, would have been $50/inch and no return invitation.

Am I a trophy hunter? Yes! More importantly, though, I believe and practice QDM. Without it, deer can not survive the poor management that is practiced by the State of Illinois' Department of Conservation or most states. Here is the profile of the two individuals who I have problems with:

1) The guy/gal who shoots an immature buck "because I needed the meat."

There is no problem or comment from me if this was the only opportunity at a deer the entire year. However, most of these hunters had already passed up several does. Simply, they do not care about herd management and the future of deer hunting.
[size=2]
2) The hunter who shoots a small buck and complains about it after it's dead by saying things like, "I never get the chance at a trophy buck.."
Bucks don't get mature when they are killed at one or two years old.
For every buck, I shoot at least three or more does.

I will apologize to you, Jeff B, for anything that you may have taken out of context. Though I'm a trophy hunter, I would never belittle another hunter for shooting a legally-taken deer. I will always, however, take the opportunity to constructively criticize the hunter who does not appreciate an animal that is dead at his feet.


By the way, of the six years that I guided deer hunters, only three of those hunters killed sub-minimum bucks. I did not fine even one of them and invited each back with the words, "Next year you'll need to raise your standards by 10 inches." [/size]

--Les Davenport, D&DH Contributing Editor


hunter480
 
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RE: Les Davenport-changed is belief?

Postby hunter480 » Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:38 am

And so now we have the other side of the story.....
 
I`d only say thanks to Les for making the statement he did, about not ever demeaning another hunters kill.
 
And even though I`m sounding like a broken record here, I`ll say it yet again...the whole obsession with rack measurement, is just another issue we as hunters, have to somehow fix. It`s crazy that there could ever even be the suggestion, that anyone`s kill could be judged/demeaned by anyone else. And it never would happen, except in the context of, the rack is subpar, therefore, it`s an "inferior" deer.
 
Good God people, wake up! Stop attacking a legal, ethical kill, by a legal, licensed hunter. It isn`t "B&C, P&Y, qdm approved, deer hunting. It`s simply "deer" hunting. Even the moniker qdm, infers that some deer aren`t "quality" animals. That`s completely absurd.
 
Each and every deer killed, in an ethical and legal manner, by a legal and licensed hunter is a "quality" deer, regardless of the rack size, and unless you subscribe to this notion, YOU are an inpediment to deer hunting, and what it stands for.

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EatDeer
 
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RE: Les Davenport-changed is belief?

Postby EatDeer » Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:43 am

ORIGINAL: Online Editor

Editor's note: This reply to the original post was provided by author Les Davenport this morning. We hope this helps clear the air on this topic. We would also like to remind all users to refrain from personal attacks on this forum.

Jeff B: First, I have no clue who you are or what I may have said to intimidate you in front of friends. Second, I would never -- even on my worst day -- have chastised you for shooting a "upper 120-inch buck," especially if it were not taken on my property or lease (which had a 125-inch minimum, and later a 130-inch minimum).

I do remember a hunter who was embarrassed about shooting a smaller buck. This hunter sadly commented that he was "never lucky enough to kill a true trophy." This implied that he was not satisfied with the buck he killed. Very sad! I may have taken the opportunity to tell that hunter (in a subtle, educational manner) that he was inhibiting his chances of ever killing a "true trophy" (his standards) by shooting immature bucks. If that hunter felt like "crap" in front of his friends, he probably felt that way before I ever came on the scene. He probably felt like "crap" because he also inhibited his friends from their chances of taking "a true trophy." If "my hunter" would have asked the fine-per-inch on that 115-inch buck, it's likely I would have answered that question. The fine, by the way, would have been $50/inch and no return invitation.

Am I a trophy hunter? Yes! More importantly, though, I believe and practice QDM. Without it, deer can not survive the poor management that is practiced by the State of Illinois' Department of Conservation or most states. Here is the profile of the two individuals who I have problems with:

1) The guy/gal who shoots an immature buck "because I needed the meat."

There is no problem or comment from me if this was the only opportunity at a deer the entire year. However, most of these hunters had already passed up several does. Simply, they do not care about herd management and the future of deer hunting.
[size=2]
2) The hunter who shoots a small buck and complains about it after it's dead by saying things like, "I never get the chance at a trophy buck.."
Bucks don't get mature when they are killed at one or two years old.
For every buck, I shoot at least three or more does.

I will apologize to you, Jeff B, for anything that you may have taken out of context. Though I'm a trophy hunter, I would never belittle another hunter for shooting a legally-taken deer. I will always, however, take the opportunity to constructively criticize the hunter who does not appreciate an animal that is dead at his feet.


By the way, of the six years that I guided deer hunters, only three of those hunters killed sub-minimum bucks. I did not fine even one of them and invited each back with the words, "Next year you'll need to raise your standards by 10 inches." [/size]

--Les Davenport, D&DH Contributing Editor


I totally agree, IL has dropped the ball with qdm, hopefully with a larger doe harvest in the future,that can be corrected. The "brown is down" type hunters, are limiting my chances at harvesting mature bucks on my property. I have no problem with a hunter harvesting small antlerd deer, but the buck should atleast be allowed to reach a mature age before killed. If hunters shoot the young bucks, the buck herd will never reach the mature age class.
"Let a young buck go, so he can grow."

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