Alsheimer or Rue?

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hunter480
 
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RE: Alsheimer or Rue?

Postby hunter480 » Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:25 pm

ORIGINAL: JPH

ORIGINAL: Robert Rowland

Ask any paramedic and he will tell you that the moon phase causes lots of things to happen.


[:)]

I am a firefighter/paramedic and have been on the job over 15 years. I've never bought that theory. My wife, who was an ER Nurse when we met, swears by it. I guess that's a discussion for another day.

But to be clear, CA does point to the photocycle priming the deer and the moon setting it off.

 
Thanks JPH for clarifying.....I was going to, but you saved me the trouble.
 
I side with Alsheimer. It`s an undeniable fact that photoperiod brings the deer into the ready for the rut, but I`ve noticed a wide swing in the timing of the actual chasing phase in the area I hunt, so he`s correct, in that, something else has to effect the timing. The moon phase makes perfect sense.
 
I`ve debated this with some know-it-all guys on a hunting site in Indiana, as well as bks here on the D&DH forum, and they want to argue fawn birthing timimg as their basis for the claim that the rut is the same each year, but since the rut can go on for several months, depending on when each doe is bred, that claim is baseless. Even the guys who claim the rut occurs the same time every year, admit that it varies up to at least a couple of weeks.... how is that the same time every year?
 
In Indiana, I`ve seen chasing activity from as early as Halloween, and as late as Thanksgiving. Not much room for argument there.

Robert Rowland
 
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RE: Alsheimer or Rue?

Postby Robert Rowland » Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:16 pm

hunter480, You say the rut can go on for months?  I disagree. Yes there is breeding going on in December and January but in my opinion the rut is the short period of time when the bucks throw caution to the wind running around like a horny teenager.  That all ends around the first part of December around here.

Robert Rowland
 
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RE: Alsheimer or Rue?

Postby Robert Rowland » Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:28 pm

You got me.  Maybe I should have said "lots of paramedics" not "any paramedic".
My secratary was pregnant with a due date of the 20th this month.
I told her that the full moon was on the 15th, and maybe she would go early.   Guess what,,,,,,yea, the 15th.    3 times more babies than an average day in that hospital.
 
Maybe there is nothing to it, but relatives who are policeman, nurses, and paramedics all agree. If they are on-call during a full moon, they will get called-in.
 

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JPH
 
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RE: Alsheimer or Rue?

Postby JPH » Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:22 am

Well so far it is 4 for Alsheimer, 4 for Rue and 2 undecided.
 
The polls are still open.
 
bks here on the D&DH forum, and they want to argue fawn birthing timimg as their basis for the claim that the rut is the same each year

 
You can count me among those "bks"'s. Watever that is.

Squirrelhawker
 
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RE: Alsheimer or Rue?

Postby Squirrelhawker » Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:19 am

Back when Charlie has first started to amass his data I had the opportunity to bow hunt quite a bit in those days, from the early season right on through. Several time in those days I would smile to myself when just about the time Charlie said I should be seeing more bucks, it was like flipping a switch.
 
In recent years I have less time with family , jobs and trying to carve out enough time for other interests (primarily falconry).
 
But more often then not, now when I'm in the woods during a predicted chase phase, the deer are doing just that-chasing. Flip side, I think it was last year or the year before when the chase phase was ending it was right at the end of bow season/beginning of gun season in NY and when he said the breeding would start it was like someone flipped a switch and the woods got quiet in big fat hurry.
 
So my bulleted thoughts:
 
The moon phase concept is valid for me based on personal experience and the theory of fawn conception needing to coincide with the dark of the moon.
 
I agree there are variables that effect this process in terms of rut intensity and individual deer behaviors
 
It is NEVER just "one thing" in the natural world. But the moon phase is useful because it is a constant that can be predicted above all other variables.
 
I further agree that it is hard to argue with the huge amount of data points that Charlie has amassed.

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dmcianfa
 
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RE: Alsheimer or Rue?

Postby dmcianfa » Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:42 am

I'm not so sure your dates are correct either.  Alsheimer and Wayne Laroche, like Rue a biologist, pair up to make the 2008 Whitetail Calendar that deer and deer hunting put out too.  I'm showing that the CHASING phase begins on the 15th of Nov. in the north, where most of these posters on this thread are located, and the tending phase starting around the 20th of Nov.  This is quite different from your stated 24th of Nov. for Alsheimer, which is well into the tending phase, according to the calendar, not necessarily god's spoken word remember.   Remember, the three bell curve phases overlap somewhat too!  Don't forget either, that there are other factors, such as weather, skewed ratios, food supply, pressure, ect... that can suppress some rut behaviors.  This may be why some people posting see what they see year after year.  People, these dates are not set in stone they are heavily influenced by both the solar and lunar illumination, but can also be midly influenced by suppressors, thereby not making any dates concrete.   Better for everyone to just hit the woods as much as possible and look at the herd on your hunting grounds and the behavior they exhibit.  seeking, chasing, and tending can all be observed if you get out there and look for it.  I suggest purchasing one of these calendars to help people understand what influences the rut and give everyone a "general" idea on when to take off of work depending on what phase of the rut one likes to be in the woods.  Happy Hunting!

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JPH
 
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RE: Alsheimer or Rue?

Postby JPH » Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:16 am

ORIGINAL: dmcianfa

I'm not so sure your dates are correct either. 

 
My dates are taken from the Nov. 2008 issue of D&DH. Again, they were dates that the two stated that peak breeding should take place.
I cannot quote page numbers as I do not have the issue in front of me.

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DeerCamp
 
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RE: Alsheimer or Rue?

Postby DeerCamp » Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:13 pm

They are both great hunters and they know their stuff. I to read the mag just to see what they have to say. It's a tough call but Im going to go with Alsheimer on this one.. Just has a slight edge.
"If I pull the hammer and shoot this young buck, he's dead. But if I pass on him, the next hunter might not shoot so straight."

Robert Rowland
 
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RE: Alsheimer or Rue?

Postby Robert Rowland » Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:00 pm

Until we meet the maker we will never know for sure what causes the timing of the rut. There is no Chiltons manual for whitetail deer.
It may well be something that has not even been considered.
The female homo-sapien gives off subtle (sometimes not so subtle)clues that they are nearing a new cycle, maybe female deer do the same thing and cause the bucks to start losing their minds in anticipation.
If I had been shut-out for the last 10 months I would probably act the same way.

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JOEL
 
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RE: Alsheimer or Rue?

Postby JOEL » Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:15 pm

like it was mentioned moon cycle has to do with photo period,ie shorter periods of daylight as the season progresses.they are both right  
"Go afield with a good attitude, with respect for the wildlife you hunt and for the forest and fields in which you walk. Immerse yourself in the outdoor experience. It will cleanse your soul and make you a better person." - Fred Bear

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