Alsheimer or Rue?

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NEW61375
 
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RE: Alsheimer or Rue?

Postby NEW61375 » Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:22 am

Will do.  That second buck above after I checked my journal was taken on Nov. 20 so about a week or so after I would have expected real heavy rutting action but I also noticed that I made lots of notes about the high temps. and drought conditions last season throughout the summer and early fall so that may have slowed things a little.  It wasn't until late October to Mid November when we started seeing some relief with rainfall and slightly cooler temps here in VA.

Squirrelhawker
 
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RE: Alsheimer or Rue?

Postby Squirrelhawker » Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:43 am

ORIGINAL: dmcianfa

Oh yeah, I almost forgot too squirrelhawker!  Here are some site rules and regs

Gratuitous insults will not be tolerated. If you're criticizing work, criticize the work, not the person. And always justify. It's generally better to make criticism constructive, and direct words at the behavior, not the person or firm: "What they did was idiotic" is less likely to offend than "they're idiots," which is personal. 

Read the admin's rules, even though I "only have 8 posts" I don't have to post over 300 times to read this section first!!!  It would be wise if you did the same.

Happy Hunting[:)]


If you go back and actually read the post, I did criticize your work. And in terms of a personal attack It was way less or at least on par with with your inference of folks being, I think you used the word "childish" etc. You got all up about my delivery, but never once mentioned my critique of your OP. My issue wasn't really with you (other than the obvious condescending tone of it and lack of substance) but your apparent lack of understanding of the topic being discussed. Now if you had come out of the gate and said that you didn't understand what all the hubbub about moon,phase, fawning and how it all relates, most of us would have been glad to hip you to what the researchers that we were talking were talking about meant. But you didn't do that. Go back and read your OP.

If the admins have issue with me, they will tell me and I will take it like a man. No one is perfect here, we all have feet of clay and are communicating through the one dimensional topic of email. My intent was to get you to think about what(little) you were saying and the way you were saying it.

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EatDeer
 
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RE: Alsheimer or Rue?

Postby EatDeer » Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:09 am

ORIGINAL: DeerCamp

They are both great hunters and they know their stuff. I to read the mag just to see what they have to say. It's a tough call but Im going to go with Alsheimer on this one.. Just has a slight edge.
I totally agree! C. Alsheimer has correctly predicted the peak rut times for my deer herd many times. I also have to agree that firm data and research out wieghs speculation and personal observations.              P.S. I don't think anyone is going to get a ban for arguing their point, if that was the case many of us would be long gone by now! [;)]
"Let a young buck go, so he can grow."

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adirondackhunter
 
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RE: Alsheimer or Rue?

Postby adirondackhunter » Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:49 am

Data is interesting to read, but i would rather get my information from older hunters who have seen it/ experienced it. Hunters who hunt the the same type of woods.Every year starting around the end of Oct scrapes are made and the majority of big bucks are killed around Thanksgiving.For me thats a fact.I do not pay attention to the prediction of the rut.Although i do take the month of Nov off. If anyone was to ask ask me the best time to hunt around my area i would tell the same thing that i just wrote.
Hunt to live , Live to hunt

NEW61375
 
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RE: Alsheimer or Rue?

Postby NEW61375 » Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:10 am

ORIGINAL: EatDeer

ORIGINAL: DeerCamp

They are both great hunters and they know their stuff. I to read the mag just to see what they have to say. It's a tough call but Im going to go with Alsheimer on this one.. Just has a slight edge.
I totally agree! C. Alsheimer has correctly predicted the peak rut times for my deer herd many times. I also have to agree that firm data and research out wieghs speculation and personal observations.              P.S. I don't think anyone is going to get a ban for arguing their point, if that was the case many of us would be long gone by now! [;)]

 
Nothing wrong with data and research but I  also feel like the experts are also just giving their opinions, yes based on data and research, but even after all of that there are no "definites" or "absolutes" for the most part.  And most of the articles I see written reference a Northern rut, that's great and all but I don't live in the North so it's not as useful to me as it might be to some.  The term expert gets thrown around a lot and I don't doubt the credentials of most of the good outdoor writers and deer biologists but one thing I can say is none of them are experts on my woods.  I don't mean that as an insult but my knowledge of my deer herd on the lands I hunt and my personal observations and field journal serve as my data and research and trump any study performed on deer halfway across the map from me.  Many other hunters would find themselves more successful if they put down the magazines(don't cancel your subscriptions or anything) and go hunting, lace up the boots and scout, start writing things down about the terrain, food sources, cover, pressure, weather, moon phases, rut sign, and the list goes on and on.  I love the articles/books as much as the next guy and there is certainly useful info in there but if it were as easy as just reading there would be a lot more successful hunters in the woods.  Just my opinion I don't have any data points to back it so take it for what it's worth.

Demoderby4
 
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RE: Alsheimer or Rue?

Postby Demoderby4 » Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:57 am

I tend to side more with Alsheimer, i haven't been that hardcore into the moon phases and that stuff yet in my hunting career, i have heard all about it and skimmed some stuff the last few years but i def. am there now! These last 6 months i have been almost obsessive about deer hunting, and lunar cycles, and it is showing no sign of stopping But Alsheimer's prediction last year of an early rut was right on where i hunt, i didnt bow hunt last year and i know thats when all of the seeking and most of the chasing had taken place, it was clear the bucks were all just about bedded down by the time i was in the woods. It was quite a discouraging season last year to say the least, and i know thats why my hunting habits and interest have changed 180 degrees, and definitely have more than improved, i'm more determined than ever to learn as much as i can and apply it to my hunts for as long as i can hunt.

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Gafrage
 
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RE: Alsheimer or Rue?

Postby Gafrage » Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:46 pm

I'm not sure who I'm going to go with.  I'll tell you in December!

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shaman
 
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RE: Alsheimer or Rue?

Postby shaman » Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:45 am

I've been sitting back here watching the pig rasslin'  and things are coming out crystal clear:   There is not enough of our anecdotal evidence to back up either author's assertions conclusively.

If Charlie said the sun came up just after the cock crowed, and Rue said the sun was coming up due to the dogs howling, we would probably be able to come to an agreement fairly soon.  Enough of us have seen the sun come up to know the real reason why they sun comes up.  Instead, the group seems fairly split.

I, personally, am in the camp that says:  yes, one of them will do nicely.  My authority on this is neither Charlie or Leonard. It's Jake.  Jake runs the processing operation at Myer's General Store in Lennoxburg, KY.  Jake will tell you:  the largest number of bucks start coming in shortly after sun-up on Opening Day of the KY Rifle Season, with a peak in the afternoon.  Scientifically backtracking and allowing for gutting, and transport that means,  if you want to bag a buck in our county, the best time to do it is before 0900  of Opening Day. My experience directly coincides with this. How that figures in to Rue's or Alsheimer's models is up to you. I suspect that if you check with your local processor or your local check station, you can get a similar response. 

Both Rue and Alsheimer will tell you that local conditions: weather, hunting pressure, etc. will influence their model significantly. Neither theory can be conclusively shown to be the sole controlling influence, at least not yet.  In either case, I doubt it will matter all that much.  Kentucky will still schedule its season  to cover the Rut.  Ohio will still schedule it's Shotgun Season between the November and December ruts. If you want to bow hunt the November rut, you are better off on one side of the Ohio River. If you want to hunt with a rifle, you're better off on the other-- local conditions prevail.


Just so you have it: the shaman predicts that the rut will peak in SW Bracken County, KY at 0650 EST on November 8, 2008. For positions east of Brooksville, you may see this peak a minute or so earlier.  The peak will last until 0900EST, when most guys get tired of reloading and start heading in. At 1000 EST there will be a second peak of activity, as the deer run for their lives from all the ATV traffic.  From 1000 EST until 1130 EST, smart hunters who stay on their stands will be able to take advantage of this second peak. The shaman advises all hunters to gut their deer as soon as possible and transport them out of the woods.  The line at Jakes can get long in the afternoon.  If you doubt my calculations, remember this:  dead deer don't rut.  At least it is hard to determine which phase of the rut a buck is experiencing when it is hanging from a meat pole.


Excuse me, I have to go get my rattle and start shaking-- my duty as the resident shaman here.  It's getting on towards dawn, and unless I get out there soon, I won't be able to get the sun to come up.  This is one deer hunter who KNOWS why the sun comes up.
Genesis 9:2-4 Ministries of SW Bracken County, KY
Confessions of a Cervid Serial Killer
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HUNT365
 
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RE: Alsheimer or Rue?

Postby HUNT365 » Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:19 am

amen to that, i agree with the shaman. gut your deer and get it to the butcher asap. then stop at the bar and spend the rest of the day there deciding which moon phase you are in. stay away from the woods, cause thats where i'll be.

juice777
 
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RE: Alsheimer or Rue?

Postby juice777 » Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:29 am

I'm with Rue. Alsheimer says buck activity not picking up this year
until the 10th. I compare notes daily with 15 fellow bowhunters in
Fond du Lac and Dodge county. 3 have already shot mature deer this year on 10/31 and 11/2. We have all seen things picking up on Halloween with more buck activity each day. Reports of young bucks chasing does is happening in many places. Car deer collisions have increased dramatically this week. In my 25 years of bowhunting, I truly believe the phases of the rut are within the same time period each year. I think this year's moon phase predictions in the articles are way off. Dont' get me wrong I love the reading and D&DH is the best magazine out there, I just dont agree with these dates. My opinion, the seek and chase phase runs from
Nov. 1st - 15th every year in our area.
 

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