Alsheimer or Rue?

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WayneL
 
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RE: Alsheimer or Rue?

Postby WayneL » Wed Nov 05, 2008 12:50 am

Charles' theory fits best with me. Deer don't have a watch or a calendar so how would they know it is November 1st? My area (Southern NY) has been reacting exactly the way Charlie says it would. It has been extremely quite here so far this season. It is just starting to pick up now. Deer hit by car, which are usually every 100 yards during the rut (it seems), are few and far between right now. I think the difference between a few days, which is what we are talking about, is very hard to detect. I hunt in a very residential area and Charlie is right on track every year. Last year I shot a nice 8 pointer on the weekend Charlie said I would. Since weather can change everyones theory, it isn't an exact science but I will agree with Charlie.
WayneL
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Squirrelhawker
 
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RE: Alsheimer or Rue?

Postby Squirrelhawker » Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:39 am

I think that during this thread discussion we are not always talking about the exact same things. CA's moon phase theory has to do with when the majority of seeking,chasing, and then subsequent breeding will take place.
It/he never states we will never see deer or kill deer outside of his parameters.
 
Deer behavior, as all life on earth, is essentially a bell curve. You will always see the target behaviors at the ends of the curve if you look for them. This is normal. Killing mature deer outside the proposed actvity period is not proof that the theory is false. It is proof of a successful hunt by most likely experienced hunters.
 
Then there are the variables that alway exist to exert their effects.
 
Daytime temps
 
Buck to doe ratios
 
Hunting pressure
 
Quality and type of habitat.
 
All these variables CA mentions in his writings as acting as "rut supressors"
I look at Moon phase theory as a "big picture" tool in planning my hunting strategies. This week has been warm in my area and getting warmer. I've opted to stay home and attend to other things. For now. Temps will come down and fortuitously will coincide with what CA is predicting as a busy week for deer behavior. It should pan out for me as it has in the past.
 
I think it is important to try and be clear, and stay clear, about what CA and others are talking about and how it relates to our own activities in the field. Relating something like "I did or didn't see deer/kill deer and so the theory is obviously wrong" is great anecdotal info but not necessarily good field data.
 
 
 

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ranwin33
 
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RE: Alsheimer or Rue?

Postby ranwin33 » Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:41 am

ORIGINAL: WayneL

Charles' theory fits best with me. Deer don't have a watch or a calendar so how would they know it is November 1st? My area (Southern NY) has been reacting exactly the way Charlie says it would. It has been extremely quite here so far this season. It is just starting to pick up now. Deer hit by car, which are usually every 100 yards during the rut (it seems), are few and far between right now. I think the difference between a few days, which is what we are talking about, is very hard to detect. I hunt in a very residential area and Charlie is right on track every year. Last year I shot a nice 8 pointer on the weekend Charlie said I would. Since weather can change everyones theory, it isn't an exact science but I will agree with Charlie.

Some people believe animals/fish/birds do and internal clocks, otherwise how is it that they know when to migrate each year.  I think going with Charles' theory because deer don't have a clock or calendar would not be a good choice; I doubt deer have the reasoning ability to look at the moon and say "oh that's the second full moon after the autumnal equinox" either.  Deer do tend to be effected by photoperiod though and that would be what Rue argues, the photoperiod each year does match up with the calendar and consequently the dates can be the same whether deer use a calendar or not.
“There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other that heat comes from the furnace.”
Aldo Leopold

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ranwin33
 
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RE: Alsheimer or Rue?

Postby ranwin33 » Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:43 am

ORIGINAL: Squirrelhawker

I think that during this thread discussion we are not always talking about the exact same things. CA's moon phase theory has to do with when the majority of seeking,chasing, and then subsequent breeding will take place.
It/he never states we will never see deer or kill deer outside of his parameters.

Deer behavior, as all life on earth, is essentially a bell curve. You will always see the target behaviors at the ends of the curve if you look for them. This is normal. Killing mature deer outside the proposed actvity period is not proof that the theory is false. It is proof of a successful hunt by most likely experienced hunters.

Then there are the variables that alway exist to exert their effects.

Daytime temps

Buck to doe ratios

Hunting pressure

Quality and type of habitat.

All these variables CA mentions in his writings as acting as "rut supressors"
I look at Moon phase theory as a "big picture" tool in planning my hunting strategies. This week has been warm in my area and getting warmer. I've opted to stay home and attend to other things. For now. Temps will come down and fortuitously will coincide with what CA is predicting as a busy week for deer behavior. It should pan out for me as it has in the past.

I think it is important to try and be clear, and stay clear, about what CA and others are talking about and how it relates to our own activities in the field. Relating something like "I did or didn't see deer/kill deer and so the theory is obviously wrong" is great anecdotal info but not necessarily good field data.

I think that is one of the best summations I've ever heard on the subject.
“There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other that heat comes from the furnace.”
Aldo Leopold

Squirrelhawker
 
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RE: Alsheimer or Rue?

Postby Squirrelhawker » Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:53 am

ORIGINAL: ranwin33

ORIGINAL: WayneL

Charles' theory fits best with me. Deer don't have a watch or a calendar so how would they know it is November 1st? My area (Southern NY) has been reacting exactly the way Charlie says it would. It has been extremely quite here so far this season. It is just starting to pick up now. Deer hit by car, which are usually every 100 yards during the rut (it seems), are few and far between right now. I think the difference between a few days, which is what we are talking about, is very hard to detect. I hunt in a very residential area and Charlie is right on track every year. Last year I shot a nice 8 pointer on the weekend Charlie said I would. Since weather can change everyones theory, it isn't an exact science but I will agree with Charlie.

Some people believe animals/fish/birds do and internal clocks, otherwise how is it that they know when to migrate each year.  I think going with Charles' theory because deer don't have a clock or calendar would not be a good choice; I doubt deer have the reasoning ability to look at the moon and say "oh that's the second full moon after the autumnal equinox" either.  Deer do tend to be effected by photoperiod though and that would be what Rue argues, the photoperiod each year does match up with the calendar and consequently the dates can be the same whether deer use a calendar or not.

 
Yes, absolutely photoperiod! But what is missed by us sometimes is that "Photo" means light. And that includes light from the moon as well as light from the sun. This is where some get confused.

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PrairieShadow
 
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RE: Alsheimer or Rue?

Postby PrairieShadow » Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:40 am

I'm a CA guy i guess. Our activity is way behind from last year just like CA said it would be.  Ill be planning my 09 hunts from his calendar once again next year.
Hunting isn't a matter of Life or Death
Its MUCH more important than that!

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JPH
 
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RE: Alsheimer or Rue?

Postby JPH » Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:28 pm

ORIGINAL: Squirrelhawker

Yes, absolutely photoperiod! But what is missed by us sometimes is that "Photo" means light. And that includes light from the moon as well as light from the sun. This is where some get confused.


I do not think you are correct here. I understand "photocycle" or "photoperiod" to be concerned with the length of sunlight only.

But honestly, I'm only repeating stuff I think I remember reading somewhere. So I could be wrong.

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ranwin33
 
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RE: Alsheimer or Rue?

Postby ranwin33 » Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:16 am

I think you are correct - photoperiod is based upon the length of day and night as measured from sunrise to sunset.  As the length of day increases the photoperiod also increases.
 
Was watching D&DH TV show this weekend.  I've got it on DVR so I want to view it again, but I believe Charlie states in one of the segments that moon phase is NOT the PRIMARY indicator for the start of the rut. 
“There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other that heat comes from the furnace.”
Aldo Leopold

RUMEN
 
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RE: Alsheimer or Rue?

Postby RUMEN » Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:46 pm

AGREED, I THINK THE DOES ARE IN CONTROL, THEY DO THE SELECTING.

hunter480
 
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RE: Alsheimer or Rue?

Postby hunter480 » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:57 pm

ORIGINAL: ranwin33

I think you are correct - photoperiod is based upon the length of day and night as measured from sunrise to sunset.  As the length of day increases the photoperiod also increases.

Was watching D&DH TV show this weekend.  I've got it on DVR so I want to view it again, but I believe Charlie states in one of the segments that moon phase is NOT the PRIMARY indicator for the start of the rut. 

 
Alsheimer`s theory is based on the belief that photoperiod set`s up the rut, the moon phase pulls the trigger.
 
And it`s the decreasing daylight, that photoperiod refers to in regards to the ruts timing.

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