ethics

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pickleguy
 
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RE: ethics

Postby pickleguy » Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:18 pm

To each his own. I do not & can not bait in Wisconsin. When I first started bow hunting 25+ years ago I used to put out a few apples from a friends trees & I didn't ever get to see what was eating them. So I stopped along time before they made it illeagal. I have been hunting in Kansas for the last 5 years where it is legal to bait. The first four years we hunted property with no bait & saw all kinds of deer & harvested a couple 140 - 175" deer. We lost about 2/3 of the original property so we made some arrangements $$$ to hunt some other land. We found out when we got there that this land is heavely baited. We sat on this property for a couple of days & decided that this is not the way we want to hunt. We spent the rest of the trip hunting the 1/3 of the original land even though we were over hunting it just so we didn't have to see deer walking up to a pile of food. It is just the way we decided to hunt.
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mrbiggkid
 
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RE: ethics

Postby mrbiggkid » Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:35 pm

First of all, to each his own so long as it is within the laws. Ethics can be fun to debate, but so long as you are within the law, I think you are fine.

A lot of the comments on here are interesting, and I'd like to try to address some of the issues that have been brought up.

It has been my understanding that there is a big difference in baiting and food plots, or crop land. Crop land is land that is being farmed for human consumption, whether through subsistence farming or commercial farming. Food plots are plots grown specifically for deer to be able to feed from year round, and could also double as a subsistence plot for the person responsible for growing it, to use the crops. Baiting is when a guy dumps a bag of "Deer 'Cane", or "Rut n Apples" within range of his treestand and then sits in the tree stand till a deer comes by.

If the latter is legal and that's your style, then go for it! I think that style needs a name other than "hunter" though. There is little hunting involved in that method. Using a food plot is a little more ethical in my book. That is a year round food source for the deer. From there hunters usually spend time scouting and tracking deer activity involving the food plot. There tends to be a little more skill involved in this as compared to "bait n sit". With food plots and crop land, hunters don't just sit and play the waiting game. They go out and scout.

As for scents, personally I won't use scents. The closest I get to using scent, is to mask my own. I keep my gear locked in a tub after using "Vanish" scent killer, and in the tub I keep open ziploc baggies full of apple/acorn/natural organic smelling materials, just to mask my own scent.

Again, to each his own, so long as you are within the law. My philosophy may be different than others, but I want to give the fairest chase possible and make myself have to work for it. I'm not one to sit in a tree stand and wait on the deer to stumble upon me...I wanna be active =)

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Gulfcapt
 
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RE: ethics

Postby Gulfcapt » Sat Jan 01, 2011 2:05 am

I don't get the point here.. its ok to hunt on a corn field as long as you have a 200 acres, or a established food plot, but a person that does not have that capability or resources must suffer and do without? lololololol you kill me... Deer get detoured by wind/noise alone let alone thrown out corn, ya it helps but so does hunting ov er your 200 acres especially when you can pinpoint what direction they are more likely to come from because of the path/trail they bet down coming in and out.. If i ever get to be a thrill seeker I will lay my gun/bow down and take one with a knife, now thats thrilling lol..
ORIGINAL: Woods Walker

ORIGINAL: krawiech

here in nj it is legal to bait deer for years i tried not to bait but then i began seeing fewer deer in my area they were short stopping by a bait pile this changed the direction they moved as a result i had to rearrange my stand site and when it happened again i said the he with itand i started to bait in a new zone last year i went on a wounded warrior hunt here in nj and they baited every site there were hunters positioned hank k


This is basically the only issue I have with it. Easier, harder....it makes no difference. That's up to the hunter. Where I draw the line is with the exact situation that you describe....where the presence of so much bait alters the pattern and you have no choice to but to bait also if you want any chance of seeing deer. Like smoking, I don't care what poison you choose to contaminate yourself with, but a smoker's right ends at my nose, and a baiter's ends when it impacts my hunting. It is for this reason alone that I would oppose tooth and nail any effort to make full bore bait piles legal in Illinois.

And yes, some would argue that Illinois is one big bait pile of corn. But when there's SO MUCH of it, then that negates any advantage of concentrating deer. Comparing cornfields on a given farm where there might be FIVE MILES of perimeter for a deer to approach from to a 10'X10' bait pile where there's 40 lineal feet is patently rediculous. That, and once a crop field or an oak tree is barren then it ceases to be an attractant. A bait pile can be added to whenever the hunter wants to, AND it's portable. You can move it to suit your needs. Try doing that with a 200 acre cornfield or an oak tree that's 3' in diameter!

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Woods Walker
 
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RE: ethics

Postby Woods Walker » Sat Jan 01, 2011 12:17 pm

LOL! Gulfer, come up here to Illinois and hunt sometime and I'll show you how "easy" it is to pinpoint where deer come into a 200+ acre cornfield!!! Try coming here when less the half of the corn crop has been harvested and then I'll show what "easy" is! You know you are within a hundred yards of so of deer, but they may as well been on the darkside of Venus for all the good it will do you.

What you have to realize is that it's not just the 200 acre cornfield that's on my farm. It's the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of acres of corn that's pretty much state wide! There's many parts of Illinois where all you can see is corn and sky. It's like being on the ocean, only you can't swim in it.....[:D]

Our corn here and in Iowa is akin to deer hunting in the "big woods" of the far northern states like Michigan and Maine. There's just so much of it.
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Waste Nothing,

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Gulfcapt
 
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RE: ethics

Postby Gulfcapt » Sat Jan 01, 2011 10:49 pm

YA HOOOOOOOO Im taking this as a invite to hunt your property!!!!! lolol[:D][:D][:D]
Happy New Year Woodsie I hope your buisness takes off in 2011 for ya..
ORIGINAL: Woods Walker

LOL! Gulfer, come up here to Illinois and hunt sometime and I'll show you how "easy" it is to pinpoint where deer come into a 200+ acre cornfield!!! Try coming here when less the half of the corn crop has been harvested and then I'll show what "easy" is! You know you are within a hundred yards of so of deer, but they may as well been on the darkside of Venus for all the good it will do you.

What you have to realize is that it's not just the 200 acre cornfield that's on my farm. It's the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of acres of corn that's pretty much state wide! There's many parts of Illinois where all you can see is corn and sky. It's like being on the ocean, only you can't swim in it.....[:D]

Our corn here and in Iowa is akin to deer hunting in the "big woods" of the far northern states like Michigan and Maine. There's just so much of it.

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Woods Walker
 
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RE: ethics

Postby Woods Walker » Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:23 pm

Just make sure you bring your checkbook, and the man who actually owns it will let you hunt as long as you like! That's how it's done in Illinois now.......deer are a cash crop!
Hunt Hard,

Kill Swiftly,

Waste Nothing,

Offer No Apologies.....

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Gulfcapt
 
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RE: ethics

Postby Gulfcapt » Sun Jan 02, 2011 8:39 am

Deer are a cash crop!!!! YOU GOT THAT RIGHT[;)][;)] look at the money we but towards it, or at least me anyways[:@]

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charlie 01
 
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RE: ethics

Postby charlie 01 » Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:47 am

What about people that leave certain amounts of standing or unharvested corn for late season draw? That would change deer patterns drastically in that whole area. Deer will travel far for a good food scorce, and stay in or near it. How much closer to baiting can that be? Especially with snow cover and their travel trails quite evident to hunt over. I can get fined for hunting a trail that deer are using on my property to get to a baited property near me. Yet I can hunt this same trail in late season if deer were going to a standing corn field left for a deer draw. Some how, somethings not right.
never say never
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Woods Walker
 
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RE: ethics

Postby Woods Walker » Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:20 pm

I agree that it's a fine line, but even with the unharvested crops it's still a:

1. Limited food source. Once it's gone, it's gone. It cannot be replenished until next growing season.

2. It's also an IMMOBILE food source. It cannot be moved to wherever it suits the hunter's immediate needs.

And again, we are talking quantities here. If you leave a few dozen rows of standing corn, between the deer, coons and squirrels, they will prettty well clean it out in a short amount of time. If you leave 50 acres, then the field is large enough that it starts to negate any advantage you may have as compared to a 10'X10' corn pile that can be added to at the hunter's whim.

I just never want to be put in the position where there's SO much baiting going on around me that the only way I can see deer during daylight hours is to bait also. I know this sounds extreme, but I have friends in New Jersey where this very thing has happened.

Besides, I've hunted Illinois now for 34 years, and I haven't had any problems killing my share of deer. If it's not broke, then don't mess with it.
Hunt Hard,

Kill Swiftly,

Waste Nothing,

Offer No Apologies.....

>>>--------------------------------->
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habitatmanager
 
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RE: ethics

Postby habitatmanager » Sun Jan 02, 2011 4:51 pm

If it's legal isn't it ethical? Or are we saying that we make unethical laws?

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