Legal vs Ethical

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hunter480
 
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Legal vs Ethical

Postby hunter480 » Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:33 pm

I simply loved the article in the January 2011 issue by Walt Hampton; Legal vs Ethical. This is a phrase I`ve used often, and many times right here in the Deer and Deer Hunting forums, saying that, "Legal doesn`t mean ethical....."
 
Walt is right, and voices my concerns about hunting becoming an industry, which it never should have become, then, even takes inventory of the real reasons the true hunter hunts; the love of hunting, the love of white-tails, wonderful time in God`s creation, and time with family and friends, and not to mention the wonderful flavor of venison on the table.
 
At times recently, I`ve wondered if I would keep my Deer and Deer Hunting subscription. As much as I love the information and some of the good people here, I`ve grown weary of the sexual and unwholesome ads in the magazine, as well as the endless rambling and nonsensical rants from ted nuggent, a, now, ticketed poacher.
 
Deer hunting for me, and I suspect for many of you here, is a pure and vital pursuit; it`s something I do that is an expression of myself, as well as an outpouring of what resides inside me.....the noble, yet still, unadulterated predator. Deer hunting is what I am, it`s what is important to me, and it`s something that is bigger than me....bigger than a hunting industry.....if it were to wither and die, I might just as well wither and die along with it.....it`s that critical to me, and I bet to you all too.
 
Thanks to Walt Hampton for a great, and timely piece that captures the true spirit of what white-tail hunting is really about, and that will, hopefully, make some consider what really is inside them.
Greg Russell

The Second Amendment, America`s Original Homeland Security

werner.reiche
 
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RE: Legal vs Ethical

Postby werner.reiche » Sat Dec 04, 2010 8:20 pm

I like Walt Hamptons writing and a do agree with you that some of the adds in D&DH are distasteful. But I have to disagree on your dislike for Ted Nugent. I'll agree his rants are overkill, but in a world smothered in political correctness, (I'm from Canada), he's a bit of fresh air.

As far as the poaching thing...I didn't follow it too closely..I thought he was convicted only of hunting over bait, and that the bait pile was on a neighboring property, he was unaware it was there and was hunting too close to it? I know as a hunter he is ultimately responsible for what he does, but was he aware he was doing something illegal when he was hunting there?

hunter480
 
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RE: Legal vs Ethical

Postby hunter480 » Sat Dec 04, 2010 8:25 pm

Hunting over bail, illegally would be poaching.......
 
And sure, I know some enjoy him....and that`s fine if they do. Me personally, I have a strong dislike for him........I don`t want to watch him, and I don`t, I don`t want to read him, and I won`t......but, won`t continue to pay for a magazine that has him in it.
 
That`s just me.
Greg Russell

The Second Amendment, America`s Original Homeland Security

hookset6969
 
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RE: Legal vs Ethical

Postby hookset6969 » Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:03 pm

Not to make this post a NUGE post but how do you get stuck with a ticket for hunting to close to a bait pile when it is not on your property [8|] That would mean that my fellow landowner could stick bait along our property line and screw me out of hunting my own land, I don't think so. Even if he was hunting over a bait pile here is your legal vs ethical, If it is against the law but ethical in your eyes should you be able to do it [8|]

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Everyday Hunter
 
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RE: Legal vs Ethical

Postby Everyday Hunter » Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:39 pm

ORIGINAL: hookset6969

...If it is against the law but ethical in your eyes should you be able to do it [8|]

It's against the law to cheat on my income taxes, but ethical in my eyes because the high tax rate is unjust.
It's against the law to hunt on my neighbor's posted property, but ethical in my eyes because he once sued me unjustly.
It's against the law to carry my concealed weapon across the state line, but ethical in my eyes because I'm a law-abiding citizen in my state.
It's against the law to burn brush during a drought when the county has a fire ban, but ethical in my eyes because I have a hose handy.

Hookset, if I start down that road, where does it end? It's called anarchy, and it ends with me -- and everyone -- being the loser. We can't pick and choose which laws to obey based on our personal opinion of what we think is ethical.

Steve
When the Everyday Hunter isn't hunting, he's thinking about hunting, talking about hunting, dreaming about hunting, writing about hunting, or wishing he were hunting.
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Dan Salmon
 
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RE: Legal vs Ethical

Postby Dan Salmon » Sun Dec 05, 2010 6:45 pm

Well said Everyday Hunter.

hunter480
 
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RE: Legal vs Ethical

Postby hunter480 » Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:33 pm

Nice post by Everyday hunter.......
 
And....Absolutely last post I`ll make HERE about nugent, but.......
 
nugent has said in television shows that he has a huge disdain for baiting laws.......has said that he won`t abide by them.....has been on camera, pouring a bait in a place that doesn`t allow baiting......what more do you want or need to see?
 
nugent does NOT speak for me, nor represent me. Deer and Deer Hunting needs to carefully consider whom they ask, and allow, to represent them. I simply will not tolerate this kind of stupidity. Period.
Greg Russell

The Second Amendment, America`s Original Homeland Security

Dan Salmon
 
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RE: Legal vs Ethical

Postby Dan Salmon » Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:00 pm

And that is fine and good, but to completely write off an otherwise good source of information just because one of their columnists you do not agree with seems a little close minded.  It's kind of like cutting off your nose to spite your face.  But do what you need to I guess.

werner.reiche
 
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RE: Legal vs Ethical

Postby werner.reiche » Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:43 am

ORIGINAL: hunter480
And....Absolutely last post I`ll make HERE about nugent, but.......
nugent has said in television shows that he has a huge disdain for baiting laws.......has said that he won`t abide by them.....has been on camera, pouring a bait in a place that doesn`t allow baiting......what more do you want or need to see?
nugent does NOT speak for me, nor represent me. Deer and Deer Hunting needs to carefully consider whom they ask, and allow, to represent them. I simply will not tolerate this kind of stupidity. Period.


Okay - you know more about the nuge poaching incident that I do...If he was deliberatly baiting where prohibited, yeah that's not good - kind of hard to look the other way on, and yes it does undermine him. It's okay to speak out and lobby against baiting laws, but breaking them should not be part of it. A bit disappointing to hear that side of it.

PBRMan
 
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RE: Legal vs Ethical

Postby PBRMan » Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:02 pm

hunter480, I agree with you on several of your points. The article by Walt Hampton puts into words what I have felt for a while now. It seems that concepts such as fair chase, sportsmanship, respect for wildlife have taken a back seat to the easiest and fastest methods to kill a buck with the biggest antlers that can be produced (artificially or not). We need to remember the reason why conservationists before us established the North American model of wildlife management and hunting, and the concept of fair chase was established, especially when some of our ranks argue that it doesn't matter what methods we use, that a dead animal is the end result anyway. We need to remember that "market hunting" where wildlife were killed as quickly and easily as possible using methods such as baiting, and jack lighting resulted in the near extinction of whitetail deer and the wild turkey. As Walt Hampton states "we must care about our legacy to future generations", I sincerely hope that a "whack em and stack em" mentality is not our legacy.

Like you, I also have considered ending my subscription to D&DH due to an increase in "sensational" type articles that only energize those hunters who have a disdain for fair chase, ethics and sportsmanship and do nothing for sound wildlife management. The Deer and Deer Hunting editorial staff's decision to continually try and shove convicted poacher Ted Nugent's nonsensical ramblings down my throat have moved me closer to making that decision. While I value the excellent information provided by Walt Hampton, John Ozoga, Charles Alsheimer, and others, I feel that my subscription to D&DH, and their ever growing close association with convicted poacher/chickenhawk draft dodger/admitted deadbeat dad Ted Nugent is somehow a vote that Nugent speaks for me, which he certainly does not.

I see on page 32 of the Hampton article that D&DH will once again shove Nugent down my throat in the March issue, where Nugent will tell me to "Shut up and go hunting". I can hardly wait.

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