So you want a new Deer Rifle, huh?

Talk about the best guns and ammunition for deer hunting!
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RE: So you want a new Deer Rifle, huh?

Postby nhdeerchaser » Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:31 pm

Great commentary, shaman!

I shoot a .30-06 BAR, with a 1.5-5x32 t/c hawken hunter scope. I shoot 165 grain remington accutips, and I find it to be a good combination. I like lighter powered scopes. I hunt in the northeast, where higher powered scopes really are'nt nesssary.

The funny story about that rifle is that I won it in a lottery. The funny part was, the owner of the gun shop kept bugging me to buy a ticket.

Well, I already had a .30-06, so I did'nt buy a ticket.

Well, he wore me down, and I finally threw a dollars worth of change on the counter. It was the last buck I had.

I got a call the following Sunday telling me I won the browning.

Gotta love luck!
You can't kill'em sittin' on the couch!

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RE: So you want a new Deer Rifle, huh?

Postby passin through » Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:37 am

cool story deer chaser!
It matters not the weapon nor its caliber, rather the caliber of the one who wields it.

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RE: So you want a new Deer Rifle, huh?

Postby 8uck5nort » Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:54 am

I want a new rifle and my real long story on how I got there. [:D]

Not trying to highjack the thread, but work is really slow right now and I am burning time to keep from going stir crazy.

I started deer hunting late. I was 36-37. My Dad dad kept asking me to go with him and up to that point I never owned anything more powerful that a pellet gun when I was a kid. I had fired a couple of shotguns and rifles over the years including the 1911 .45 and M14 in the service, but never owned one much less considered myself a "gun person".

Dad finally said "Hey, if we get shotguns will you go"? I finally relented, so off to Walley World we went and Dad insisted on getting Mossberg 500 12 guages, long and heavy barrelled and the biggest slugs you could buy. His MO is "If I could mount a cannon to my back I would". He does not like to chase them and wants the "bang-flop" only. I really didn't know anything about hunting or deer hunting for that matter. I personally was wanting the smaller 20 guage or (and don't laugh) the youth .410 because they were smaller, and looked to my beginner eyes, as easier to carry around the woods. Dad was buying so I just went along with it.

Needless to say shooting a 12 guage with deer slug (even the 2.75 inch shells) has never been a comfortable experience for me. I got a recoil pad that you wear to soften the punch of those initial mag shells we were using, and I can honestly admit that the harsh recoil almost discouraged me from wanting to continue.

I did not get a deer the first year even though I had opportunities. I shot at 3 or 4 deer and I just sucked at shooting the 12 guage because I did not want to get hammered by that mag load. First day of the following season I finally got my first deer and buck with that shotgun. I still have the shell. I was hooked on deer hunting, but I only used the shotgun a couple more times that season before I went out and bought a muzzleloader. At that time in Indiana we could not hunt with a rifle. I found the muzzelloader a much more pleasent shooting experience. Less recoil and after experimenting with various powders and bullets I had no more thoughts of pulling the trigger thinking "this is gonna hurt". With the 12 ga I was always focused on the pain and bruises to come rather than the shot itself or the pleaseure of just shooting.

Fast forward to today I picked up bowhunting along the way and I have steadily grown an interest into rifles and shooting. I picked up a couple of 8mm mausers, .22 rifles and a youth .410 shotgun. I am learning to build out a custom rifle built on a mauser action. I am also learning to reload my own cartridges in part for greater accuracy and recoil managment. I have figured out that I like to shoot anything that doesn't beat the snot out me. Call me a wimp, but I don't care as long as I can still lift my arm up the next day after shooting practice, hey, I'm happy.

We can now hunt with certain calibers and cartridges lengths for rifles in Indiana, and so....I was considering getting a new .44 rem mag single shot. with a scope to shoot handloaded cartridges for accuracy and low to moderate recoil with a scope for my over 40 eyes during our firearms season in the event I am buckless after bow season or just to fill some doe tags if I have. Should be good deer gun under 125 yards and small and light enough to haul up and down a tree.
Veni, Vidi, Sagittam Mittere, now I'm ready for my nap :)

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RE: So you want a new Deer Rifle, huh?

Postby shaman » Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:34 pm

8uck5nort:  That sounds like an excellent plan

Dang! Everybody's agreeing with me.  This ain't no fun.

. . . well except for the Trout Brothers, but I guess they're gone.

I knew a guy named Dwight Trout.  Everyone thought that was a real funny name. That was right up there with Anna Borchine, and Shi-Thead Jones.
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RE: So you want a new Deer Rifle, huh?

Postby Cut N Run » Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:35 am

A buddy of mine went to school with an Ophelia Peters, but we won't go there.
I have been shooting a .308 Model 70 Winchester Featherweight since 1982 and it accounted for LOTS of deer. I deflected one shot on a limb and grazed one back in '85, otherwise, everything I've put the crosshairs and pulled the trigger on ended up in my freezer. That grazed buck was killed two days later & my shot shaved hair only.  I'm not a big guy & the recoil on that rifle suits without causing recoil headaches.  The farthest I've ever taken a deer with it was a 185 yard head shot on a doe. Like you, most of my deer were taken inside 50 yards because I hunt fairly thick woods. My biggest racked buck was a 15 yard shot. It has a Leupold 2.5 X 8 with graduated dots ground into the reticle.  It is deadly accurate to 350 yards (because that's the farthest I can shoot around here).
That rifle fits me so well, it is like shaking hands with an old friend. When I shoulder it with my eyes closed, as soon as I open my left eye, I am looking through the dead center of the crosshairs.  A couple of months ago, I found a good deal on the same model rifle, but in .30-'06.  It needs some adjustment and is in good hunting shape. I added the same model scope just because.  Now, none of my firearms are show pieces.  They all have battle scars that remind me of hunting trips gone by.  I don't have any kids to pass any of my guns on to, but maybe one of my nephews will get bitten by the hunting bug.
I believe that a single shot rifle makes the shooter take better aim because there is not a quick follow-up shot handy.  Bullet placement is what successful deer hunting is all about. I shoot a right-handed bolt action left-handed, because that is how I started out.  I have been doing it so long, it feels downright awkward to shoot a left-handed bolt action to me. That quirk also makes me take extra care in making sure my shot counts.
I'm a fan of putting a .30 caliber slug in deer.  You seldom have to look for them and the tracking is easy if they don't drop on impact.   It is up to whomever is behind the trigger to make as quick and humane a kill as possible. A friend hunted with a .243 for a time when he was younger, but we had to trail too many deer from it.
So, my new rifle is really an old rifle that is just new to me, in a caliber that is slightly more powerful than what I already hunt with. I do look forward to putting it to good use...and will post pictures of anything I take with it, IF I get the picture posting thing down by then.
Luck Counts, good or bad

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RE: So you want a new Deer Rifle, huh?

Postby shaman » Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:43 am

It always makes me cringe a little when folks start talking about .243 WIN.  Mind you, there is nothing wrong about .243 WIN.  It's one of the cartridges that's on my short list.  It's just that. . . well, see if you can follow this.

I've been on hunting forums for about ten years now.  There always some guy who is:

1)  Passionately in love with the .243 WIN
2)  Loves to take shoulder shots
3)  Passionately against a whole slew of bullets.

One bullet blew up on him. Another pencilled through.  This one works. This one doesn't-- vast experience with a number of bullets and he can write volumes on the relative properties of most premium bullets manufactured for the .243 WIN.

Does anyone else see this?  Again, I'm not knocking 243 WIN or .243 hunters or .243 rifles. I'm not making sideways dings at 6mm or 25-06 either.  It just goes back to what I was saying about there being just a small performance window in which to operate before you either A) exceed the operating limits of the lead and guilding metal of the bullet or B) exceed the operating limits of the deer and pass through the opposite side.

Now you come to the .243 WIN.  Here is a rifle with lots of velocity and considerably less mass to deliver than its 308 WIN progenitor.  The window between A and B has become somewhat compressed. Now a direct hit on a rib can cause perfect mushrooming , but a glancing deflection at  short range can produce incredible forces on a bullet that rips it apart.  How do you deal with that? A stronger bullet?  A poly-carbonate tip?    This is where the argument ensues.  One guy swears by TSX, another thinks Inter-whatsitz work better.  Then the Partition guys sounds off. Meanwhile, I'm sitting back with my low-budget .308 diameter Corelokts and Interlocks scratching my head.  I don't have strong opinions about the bullets I choose.  I've never needed them. 

I saw a discussion a while back on the subject of elk. Thankfully it did not include the .243 WIN, but the bigger animal and bigger rifle ( I think it was 300 WIN MAG) just made the problem bigger.  The fellow was trying to find a single bullet that would kill an elk equally well at short range and long range, but he required that both be accomplished with shoulder shots.  His experience was that his bullet of choice was over-expanding at short range.  Somebody asked why not save the shoulder shots for 200 yards and out and keep the close-in shots at the chest and be done with it.  It was the classic example of what I'm driving at:

Bullet(x) +  Distance(y) + Density(Z) = Perfect DRT shot

Bullet(x) + (1/2 X Distance(y)) + Density(Z) =  Grenade

Bullet(x)  + (2 X Distance(y))  + Density(Z) = Pencil

It doesn't even have to be a  2 stuck in there. It could be a 4 or an 8; you can put in any value you see fit.   You can play with density instead of distance or change bullets or whatever.  The problem is that as you get a smaller lighter bullet and drive it faster, the equation gets tighter.

 . . . and I'm not saying .243 WIN  is actually the culprit or that there is something wrong with hunting with a .243 WIN or anything like that.  If somebody handed me a ..243 WIN Ruger International on my birthday like say. . . this one:

  . . .I'd be leaving puddles (somebody can slip a hint to KYHillChick; my birthday's coming up).  It just seems that when there IS trouble with bullet not performing well, it is usually coming from a small, fast bullet.  .243 WIN is probably the most popular round in the small  fast category, and this is why I see so many arguments over it.  It is also right at the bottom of what a lot of states require as a minimum caliber.

What started this thread was the idea of putting something up for guys thinking about a new deer rifle.  Normally folks  don't think of me as being a source of advanced knowledge of rifle ballistics, so if you're looking here for advice you probably need something pretty basic.  Here's my bottom line:  keep to the middle way until you know enough about deer rifles to get adventurous.  .243 WIN is not the middle of the road.
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Confessions of a Cervid Serial Killer

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RE: So you want a new Deer Rifle, huh?

Postby Gahunter » Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:04 am

I THINK what some people have to consider is now there is major differences in is bullet choice due to the great improvment over the last few years.

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RE: So you want a new Deer Rifle, huh?

Postby shaman » Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:27 am

ORIGINAL: Gahunter

I THINK what some people have to consider is now there is major differences in is bullet choice due to the great improvment over the last few years.

Yes, there is a huge difference in bullets from a generation ago.  However, the deer themselves have not changed.  I can remember a time when the Remington Corelokt was considered a premium bullet. 
I'm not going to knock anyone who wants to lob a 50-cent bullet or a $1 bullet at a deer.  My preference  is to stay on the cheap side of the spectrum.  Deer are not THAT hard to kill. My admonition is to keep to the middle of the road. I can honestly say I have never spent a dime on premium bullets and I have never lost a deer to poor bullet performance.
Genesis 9:2-4 Ministries of SW Bracken County, KY
Confessions of a Cervid Serial Killer

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RE: So you want a new Deer Rifle, huh?

Postby cdn1 » Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:43 pm

Shaman, I would like to disagree with you just to keep the conversation intact but I am of the same mindset. If you are legally allowed to use a .30cal then do so. Not that the .243 isn't capable just that the 30cal is alittle more effecient in its ablity to remove a ungulates will to live. Which
in some cases is quite extreme.

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RE: So you want a new Deer Rifle, huh?

Postby GTOHunter » Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:10 pm

Yes I want a new Deer Rifle......I have been thinking about getting me a Savage Bolt-action 7mm-08 in the Accu-Trigger,might even consider using the managed recoil shells in it from Remington?Oh Yeah....I still love my Browning .243 A-Bolt Rifle [:D] [;)]


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