Pilot Antler Restriction Project

Does your state have a deer regulation that defies common sense?
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JPH
 
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RE: Pilot Antler Restriction Project

Postby JPH » Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:52 am

Good question. I am only aware of two first hand examples from our neighbors.
 
One guy shot a spike at a long distance, thinking it was a doe. He called the MDC officer and explained. The officer accepted the explination and wrote him a tag for it.
 
Another situation was when one of the Amish up the road shot a 6 pointer. Someone called them in and they pled ignorance. They were issued a fine, but were allowed to keep the deer.
 
The ugly truth seems to be that for evey one that comes to the attention of the MDC, there are a good half-dozen thatgo un-reported.
 
This is one of the many reasons that I prefer late gun seasons and education to APRs.

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EatDeer
 
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RE: Pilot Antler Restriction Project

Postby EatDeer » Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:49 pm

ORIGINAL: ranwin33

I'm not sure how much it would help balance the herd based upon what's getting shot.  I think there are many hunters who won't shoot a doe and hold out for a buck no matter what, so many may well not take part in an early doe season.  We've got neighbors like that.

It might help with herd management from a stand point that bucks would be given a couple weeks warning before people start shooting at them with firearms.  Guns going off in the woods can make deer nervous.  But if it happened too early, then the woods would have time to settle down again.

I know we have ample opportunities to take does during the regular firearms season and following muzzle loader season and we don't shoot them because we take our does during bow season which is about two months prior and about two months following gun season.  Shooting a doe with a gun isn't much of a challenge on our property.  So we probably wouldn't participate in an early doe season using firearms anyway.

My only objection would be that in Missouri bow season closes when gun season starts, so I'd lose a week or two of bow hunting during the prime part of the season.  Other than that I'd have no objections to an early doe season.  I think it might be one of several changes Missouri is considering. 

Here is where Missouri appears to be headed, take note of the graphs as the table can be misleading.
http://www.mdc.mo.gov/hunt/deer/2008forums/summary.htm  I'd say changes are in store for us.

 I didn't mean a gun season intruding on your bow season, I meant before the bow season.  I think that most average gun hunters in MO harvest deer for meat If the season on doe's was a couple weeks before bow season. I'd have to think that would put more doe meat in the freezer than buck meat for the average hunter, because of the turn out for better weather. Those deer managers from the state of MO., declared that more doe's were harvested under the 4 point rule, than normaly occurred during firearms season before, so the hunters really weren't inclined to harvest bucks, rather than meat. If someone is after bucks , then a early doe season before the rut would not hurt the buck hunting in my opinion. It would only improve your odds by thinning the doe herd, to get more bucks roaming for hot doe's.    I could never figure out if someone is looking for big racked mature bucks, why wouldn't they want to shoot doe's? QDM advocates imply that the over populated doe herd directly affects the quality of the buck herd.  
"Let a young buck go, so he can grow."

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EatDeer
 
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RE: Pilot Antler Restriction Project

Postby EatDeer » Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:01 pm

ORIGINAL: ranwin33

ORIGINAL: JPH
I hope so! I hunt Iowa and Missouri and the difference in night and day. I believe a late firearms season has a majoor impact on the quality of the herd.


What kind of impact do you think the late firearms season will have as opposed to our current second saturday of November start date.  I'm thinking if it starts the week of Thanksgiving or even the one before, we might see better quality deer simply because the best bucks will have been allowed to breed as opposed to being shot before they had a chance.  But would be interested in your thoughts as well.
I belive a earlier gun season relives some of the stress put on older bucks at the wrong time of winter. That would improve the odds of the bucks living through the hardest part of winter. 
"Let a young buck go, so he can grow."

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EatDeer
 
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RE: Pilot Antler Restriction Project

Postby EatDeer » Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:09 pm

ORIGINAL: hunter480

ORIGINAL: ranwin33

I'm fully in favor of antler restrictions.  We have them in my part of Missouri and I am convinced they play a part in the more and bigger deer we are seeing.  It appears to have been successful as more counties will be operating with the restrictions this season.  At first I was unhappy when it happened since we had not seen any bucks that would have been considered legal and I figured we'd have nothing to shoot.  But after the first year, things have definately improved.  I'd like to think some of our land management practices also help, but I know the antler restrictions play the biggest part.  As an example the 14 hunters on 140 acres to our south took just a two bucks and a doe this year on their property.  In past years most of them would have taken an immature buck. 


Not everyone believes shooting an immature buck is a sin. Not everyone believes it`s critical to see "more, and bigger deer....."
Most average hunters are looking for a mature buck by the end of the season after they stock meat. It's a undeniable fact that they recieve great enjoyment when that booner hangs from the skinning pole.  That is why most average hunters head to the woods every year, to shoot a few deer, and a big buck.
"Let a young buck go, so he can grow."

msbadger
 
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RE: Pilot Antler Restriction Project

Postby msbadger » Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:32 am

Being from NY...and not in a restricted area I have mixed feels....It's nice that some one under 17 is exempt but what about are aging hunters....which by the way make up the biggest hunting population.....example...My dad in-laws 83 year old father was in an accident...broke his neck...by hunting season he was still in a full body cast....we set up a straight back chair on the edge of the field ...drove him to the spot sat him down and thankfully with in 2 hrs he shot a nice 8pt...but what if it was only a nice 4 ...that was his last hunt....It's these guys that supported and kept hunting going all these years....then again...I also think that the guy/gal who doesn't have the privilage of time that I have in the field and just wants a chance at a deer for the freezer...well if they only see a 4pter and no doe....which can happen in some areas...they lost out
Now on the other hand...NOT A RANT..just personal experiance...I'd love to see it around me...it would make a for yahoos stop the shooting at deer runing 30-40 miles an hour through fields and woods...lessening gut..shootings and legs blown off...numerouse fawns being shot(which end up being button bucks) ..ect...

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EatDeer
 
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RE: Pilot Antler Restriction Project

Postby EatDeer » Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:31 pm

Great point, someone in that situation of being injured should be allowed to tag the first deer that walks by. Also, I think if a weekend hunter doesnt connect on a small buck, it really wouldn't be that big of a deal to them. They know their not putting in large amount of time anyway, so they wouldn't be too upset about eating tag soup. They might be used to not harvesting, and be more into the enjoyment of the outdoors. I think the 4 rule is more about quality of the hunt for the majority of hunters, than anything else, not that it makes it fair.  It's more effective for improveing state herd management that way.
"Let a young buck go, so he can grow."

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RE: Pilot Antler Restriction Project

Postby hunter480 » Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:59 am

ORIGINAL: EatDeer

ORIGINAL: hunter480

ORIGINAL: ranwin33

I'm fully in favor of antler restrictions.  We have them in my part of Missouri and I am convinced they play a part in the more and bigger deer we are seeing.  It appears to have been successful as more counties will be operating with the restrictions this season.  At first I was unhappy when it happened since we had not seen any bucks that would have been considered legal and I figured we'd have nothing to shoot.  But after the first year, things have definately improved.  I'd like to think some of our land management practices also help, but I know the antler restrictions play the biggest part.  As an example the 14 hunters on 140 acres to our south took just a two bucks and a doe this year on their property.  In past years most of them would have taken an immature buck. 


Not everyone believes shooting an immature buck is a sin. Not everyone believes it`s critical to see "more, and bigger deer....."
Most average hunters are looking for a mature buck by the end of the season after they stock meat. It's a undeniable fact that they recieve great enjoyment when that booner hangs from the skinning pole.  That is why most average hunters head to the woods every year, to shoot a few deer, and a big buck.

 
That`s your opinion.

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ranwin33
 
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RE: Pilot Antler Restriction Project

Postby ranwin33 » Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:49 am

ORIGINAL: EatDeer

I didn't mean a gun season intruding on your bow season, I meant before the bow season.  I think that most average gun hunters in MO harvest deer for meat If the season on doe's was a couple weeks before bow season. I'd have to think that would put more doe meat in the freezer than buck meat for the average hunter, because of the turn out for better weather. Those deer managers from the state of MO., declared that more doe's were harvested under the 4 point rule, than normaly occurred during firearms season before, so the hunters really weren't inclined to harvest bucks, rather than meat. If someone is after bucks , then a early doe season before the rut would not hurt the buck hunting in my opinion. It would only improve your odds by thinning the doe herd, to get more bucks roaming for hot doe's.    I could never figure out if someone is looking for big racked mature bucks, why wouldn't they want to shoot doe's? QDM advocates imply that the over populated doe herd directly affects the quality of the buck herd.  

 
A gun season before our bow season begins would have to start around Labor Day.  Missouri bow season starts 9/15.  I'd agree, shoot more does, I just don't think an early gun season will have much effect.  We take our does during archery season because shooting them with a gun isn't much of a challenge.  Without exaggeration we could shoot a doe using a gun just about any evening we chose.  I know it isn't that way for everyone, but that is our situation.  We just have ample opportunity to take does, be it with bows before gun season, muzzle loader season, bow season after gun season, so an early season for does isn't much interest to me.

hunter480
 
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RE: Pilot Antler Restriction Project

Postby hunter480 » Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:19 pm

ORIGINAL: ranwin33

ORIGINAL: EatDeer

I didn't mean a gun season intruding on your bow season, I meant before the bow season.  I think that most average gun hunters in MO harvest deer for meat If the season on doe's was a couple weeks before bow season. I'd have to think that would put more doe meat in the freezer than buck meat for the average hunter, because of the turn out for better weather. Those deer managers from the state of MO., declared that more doe's were harvested under the 4 point rule, than normaly occurred during firearms season before, so the hunters really weren't inclined to harvest bucks, rather than meat. If someone is after bucks , then a early doe season before the rut would not hurt the buck hunting in my opinion. It would only improve your odds by thinning the doe herd, to get more bucks roaming for hot doe's.    I could never figure out if someone is looking for big racked mature bucks, why wouldn't they want to shoot doe's? QDM advocates imply that the over populated doe herd directly affects the quality of the buck herd.  


A gun season before our bow season begins would have to start around Labor Day.  Missouri bow season starts 9/15.  I'd agree, shoot more does, I just don't think an early gun season will have much effect.  We take our does during archery season because shooting them with a gun isn't much of a challenge.  Without exaggeration we could shoot a doe using a gun just about any evening we chose.  I know it isn't that way for everyone, but that is our situation.  We just have ample opportunity to take does, be it with bows before gun season, muzzle loader season, bow season after gun season, so an early season for does isn't much interest to me.

 
Understand that not everyone is in your situation-not everyone could shoot a doe every night. SOME hunt hard all archery, AND firearms, AND muzzleloader season, and might be lucky to punch ONE tag.
 
It isn`t all about you..........

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JOEL
 
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RE: Pilot Antler Restriction Project

Postby JOEL » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:40 pm

i dont like it.Ya spend all summer practicing  spend thousands on equipmentand time and you go hunting and say thats the only deer you see that one week of vacation you got.sorry kid not big enough.Its a QDM thing  and i hunt for meat not antlers anyway.If a person wants to wait and try to shoot a big one thats fine,i try to fill my doe tags first so that i dont have to shoot the first buck that walks by
"Go afield with a good attitude, with respect for the wildlife you hunt and for the forest and fields in which you walk. Immerse yourself in the outdoor experience. It will cleanse your soul and make you a better person." - Fred Bear

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