Pilot Antler Restriction Project

[JPH]

Yeah good time to refresh this topic. So far this year on my Missouri property I have seen an unusual number of 1.5-2.5 year old bucks with scrubby spikes and forks. I mean LOTS of 'em!

Is this the result of several years of APR (MO is 4 pt. on one side)? My reading does not indicate that the two are related, but it does make you wonder.

I also had a beautiful yearling, 7 pt. walk right under me. I almost hated to see him walk away b/c he has little chance of surviving rifle season.

[dtrain56]

Well APR's a very debated topic and one of personal preference - I know that in 2002 when i bought my property in pa you would be hard pressed to see a 2.5 year old deer  or more than a spike..

they have worked very well in PA so far, last year i shot a nice 7pt 2.5 year old (in picture) and this year I got a nice 2.5 year old nine pt..

maybe in the future i'll let those walk but the hunters around wont, i have a public game lands on one side of my property, but there is also about 1000 acres of posted property on the other three sides( not all mine,darn it!!!)

no they are not pope and young deer but i have a couple of pics of nicer..P&Y quality deer on the trail cams...there are not a ton of them but they are there

this issue is contested because of the idea that apr's are "good fit for everyone" i don't think there is any management program that is perfect. Each state has it's own goals and needs to do the best for what the majority of people hunting want in there state.
 
QDMA has been highly contested in PA. PA tried to do to much to soon and there was a public backlash because hunters were not seeing the number of deer they had seen in the past ( they dramatically increased doe harvests state wide from 2002-2006 and introduced APR's)

they didn't care about inches of antler of herd health they just wanted numbers


I still think that Pa should allow for more doe to be harvested and make the state a four point state wide restriction...one reason I think this works for PA is gun season is after the primary rut..so genetics are passed on ...if they had better food sources and could grow older then you would see better antler growth..

so far i have tried to increase the amount of quality forage on my small piece of heaven...by planting food plots and feeding in the winter..
 
i still could improve  my property by increasing the density of forest by select cutting...and letting "good" bucks walk...

as for now i think the APR's have dramatically increased the quality of bucks taken in the last couple of years
 
if i thoght those deer i shoot had a decent chance of making it through the gun season i would have let them walk but you have to change the culture of PA and i don't think that will happen anytime soon

[JOEL]

you would have been happy with me today JPH i let a spike walk.then i heard a shot 5 mins later .so much for letting them walk,somebody else shot it[&:]

[JPH]

ORIGINAL: JOEL

you would have been happy with me today JPH i let a spike walk.then i heard a shot 5 mins later .so much for letting them walk,somebody else shot it[&:]

Not sure how to take that. The only thing you have to do to make me happy is to obey the game laws and strive to be the best hunter you can be.

If you pass on a deer I hope it is either because the laws require you to or because it is part of your own progression as a hunter/steward.

[Patriot]

Ok.  It's taken me about 2 hours to read through this thread.  
 
I sure appreciate all the passionate responses and feel like I know many of you even better now.
 
It would anger me quite a bit to have antler restrictions forced on me.  I'd rather implement them on my own accord.  That would be easier if I owned my own property.
 
Honestly, even after 20 years of hunting, I'd probably still take a 1.5 year old if given a nice clean shot....especially with a bow.  After that, however, I would hold off for does and older bucks for the remainder of the season.  In my mind, that is sort of a compromise.
 
I do get irritated when guys keep pounding the 1.5 year olds even after having a full freezer already.

[twotone3]

I once again am posting on this subject since I have now had to let several bucks walk away from me this season due to the stupid restrictions here in Missouri.  I am one for letting the deer grow but I shouldn't have to if I don't want to.  If they are going to impose such rules it should be state wide and not in certain counties.  Plus here in Missouri we have a telecheck system where you check in your deer by phone or internet which makes it possible for anyone to cheat the system.  I witnessed a person on the neighboring property shoot a 6 pointer I let walk due to the antler restriction and when I said something he stated that he didn't care about the law.  I have heard several of the local good olé boys in the area say the same thing.  I tried calling the conservation agent but by the time they got there the deer was gone.  So you tell me how the law works.

[JPH]

ORIGINAL: twotone3

I once again am posting on this subject since I have now had to let several bucks walk away from me this season due to the stupid restrictions here in Missouri.  I am one for letting the deer grow but I shouldn't have to if I don't want to.  If they are going to impose such rules it should be state wide and not in certain counties.  Plus here in Missouri we have a telecheck system where you check in your deer by phone or internet which makes it possible for anyone to cheat the system.  I witnessed a person on the neighboring property shoot a 6 pointer I let walk due to the antler restriction and when I said something he stated that he didn't care about the law.  I have heard several of the local good olé boys in the area say the same thing.  I tried calling the conservation agent but by the time they got there the deer was gone.  So you tell me how the law works.

Why shouldn't you have to pass on these bucks if you don't want to? I mean I'd rather not pay for tags, but I have to do that. What is the big deal, are you having problems seeing does or do you just feel the need to shoot something with antlers?

As for poachers, well this law works about as well as any other in relation to them. They don't follow it! Like your guy said, he does not care about the law. So why would this one be any different? These types do not observe the closed seasons. Should we do away with them too?

[twotone3]

It matters not to me what I shoot.  I hunt for the meat and not the trophy.  Ever since they made the antler restriction I have seen fewer and fewer deer every year.  It seems that the number of does has diminished greatly in my area and most the bucks I see aren't legal to shoot.  Each year we have tried to increase the the reasons for deer to be on our property by putting in mineral licks and feeders during the off season.  Our trail cameras have caught pictures of a few legal bucks but we don't seem to see any does.  I'm not understanding why this is happening.
 
As far as the poachers go the number one poacher in the area is the local conservation agents father.  Supposedly they have been trying to catch him in the act for the past several years but are never able to.  I feel that the conservation agent just turns the other cheek when he hears about people poaching in the area where he grew up.  It is a problem I have brought to the attention of the department of conservation but I have yet to see any results.

[JPH]

ORIGINAL: twotone3

As far as the poachers go the number one poacher in the area is the local conservation agents father.  Supposedly they have been trying to catch him in the act for the past several years but are never able to.  I feel that the conservation agent just turns the other cheek when he hears about people poaching in the area where he grew up.  It is a problem I have brought to the attention of the department of conservation but I have yet to see any results.

I do feel for you there. Poaching seems to be an enormous problem through large parts of Missouri. I know it is in the area I hunt.

I hope that your luck tuns and you begin to see more deer. I might suggest that minerals (mainly a spring/summer) attractant and off season feeders (an attractant for any time except the season) are not the solution. You may want to explore ways to create thick escape cover. This is most certainly a draw during hunting season.

Either way, the APR may be cutting down on your shot opportunities but it is not cutting down wiping out the deer herd.

[twotone3]

We already have several acres of heavy cedar near the center of the property near the lake.  The one neighbor also has a very heavy cedar and pine area on the property border that no one enters unless trailing a deer.  This upcoming spring we are going to put in a couple food plots near these areas.  Either way I'm hoping to have some luck this weekend when muzzle loading season opens.  If not, guess I'll have to get my bow back in working order or wait till next year being that we don't have the antler-less season in our county.