Pilot Antler Restriction Project

Does your state have a deer regulation that defies common sense?
hunter480
 
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RE: Pilot Antler Restriction Project

Postby hunter480 » Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:01 pm

ORIGINAL: SyracuseBowhunter

Yeah, don't read too much into it. I was never active beyond paying my dues, reading the magazine, and posting on the message board.

I began to feel that the movers and shakers in the orginization only related to wealthy owners of large tracts of land (that's not me). I also felt the trophy aspect was overstated.

I did not really "leave" the QDMA. I just let my membership quietly expire. I still think they are a positive force in deer hunting, but they do not represent me well enough to earn my money.

I think the biggest message is that one can pratice QDM with or without the QDMA. The idea, the ethic and the conservation are all bigger than any club.

I am honored that you would consider me to be a strong advocate for QDM. I'd like to think I can continue to be so, simply by the force of my words and by my example. In my opinion, THAT is how ethics grow.
ORIGINAL: JPH

ORIGINAL: hunter480

JPH-

I`m dumbfounded. You`ve left QDMA?...

I`m just blown away that you`re not involved with QDMA anymore.



Yeah, don't read too much into it. I was never active beyond paying my dues, reading the magazine, and posting on the message board.

I began to feel that the movers and shakers in the orginization only related to wealthy owners of large tracts of land (that's not me). I also felt the trophy aspect was overstated. 

I did not really "leave" the QDMA. I just let my membership quietly expire. I still think they are a positive force in deer hunting, but they do not represent me well enough to earn my money.

I think the biggest message is that one can pratice QDM with or without the QDMA. The idea, the ethic and the conservation are all bigger than any club. 

I am honored that you would consider me to be a strong advocate for QDM. I'd like to think I can continue to be so, simply by the force of my words and by my example. In my opinion, THAT is how ethics grow. 


It is funny that you say that JPH, because I did the same thing with QDMA.  I even served as treasurer of the local branch for a couple of years, but felt the same way you did...that the "movers and shakers" of the organization were only catering to wealth landowners who owned more than 200 acres of land.  That's not me either.  I do believe in the tenets of the organization though and practice QDM principles and managing for better habitat for wildlife on my property.

And as far as Hunter 480's comment about "politically correct whitetail hunting", it isn't that at all.  It is about sound herd management practices that don't leave the buck to doe ration at 1:10.  It would help the herd a lot going into the winter because it would not stretch the rut out so long...1 1/2 year old bucks would not be servicing so many does and the buck population would go into winter in better health.  That sounds like wise stewardship of our natural resources to me.  Besides, not many polititians in Albany enjoy deer hunting, especially those from New York City.

 
I fully understand, and support wise stewardship of the resource, make no mistake about it.
 
What I take issue with, and what my comment was directed at, is curtailing hunting opportunities with the use of Antler Restrictions. AR`s are not a tool for keeping a herd healty, but instead, are a tool to supposedly create bigger racked bucks.
 
So, I was simply saying, why even call it deer hunting anymore?

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SyracuseBowhunter
 
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RE: Pilot Antler Restriction Project

Postby SyracuseBowhunter » Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:40 pm

Because that is exactly what it is...deer hunting.  And it takes your hunting skill to a whole new level.  It's not too difficult to shoot a spikehorn because they've never been through a hunting season before and those are the easiest bucks to pick off.  Try doing the same with a 3 1/2 year old buck, and I don't care how big his rack is.  He could be a 6 pointer for all I care.  It is a challenge and you have to learn to hunt much better to take one.  And yes, there is a lot more meat on a mature deer.  Maybe it is just our culture that insists on instant gratification that has influenced deer hunters into becoming lazy hunters that want everything convenient and easy...
"All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

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EatDeer
 
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RE: Pilot Antler Restriction Project

Postby EatDeer » Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:13 am

ORIGINAL: JPH

ORIGINAL: hunter480

JPH-

I`m dumbfounded. You`ve left QDMA?...

I`m just blown away that you`re not involved with QDMA anymore.



Yeah, don't read too much into it. I was never active beyond paying my dues, reading the magazine, and posting on the message board.

I began to feel that the movers and shakers in the orginization only related to wealthy owners of large tracts of land (that's not me). I also felt the trophy aspect was overstated. 

I did not really "leave" the QDMA. I just let my membership quietly expire. I still think they are a positive force in deer hunting, but they do not represent me well enough to earn my money.

I think the biggest message is that one can pratice QDM with or without the QDMA. The idea, the ethic and the conservation are all bigger than any club. 

I am honored that you would consider me to be a strong advocate for QDM. I'd like to think I can continue to be so, simply by the force of my words and by my example. In my opinion, THAT is how ethics grow. 
I'm not a large land owner, but I still think the QDMA is helping me manage my land.     I don't feel left out at all, and still post on the forums quite a bit, the ethics of the men involved is a big reason why I do post there.  They have been very clear that QDM isn't about large bucks (thats a by-product of a healthy herd), and that even with a small parcel, I can still make a difference in the herd. Through habitat improvements, passing young bucks, and plotting,etc. Co-ops are part of the picture, but hunter involvement is a much larger and needed part of QDMA. Maybe I'm just not as selfish when it comes to managing my land or herd for another hunters gain.    
"Let a young buck go, so he can grow."

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EatDeer
 
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RE: Pilot Antler Restriction Project

Postby EatDeer » Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:24 am

ORIGINAL: hunter480

ORIGINAL: SyracuseBowhunter

Yeah, don't read too much into it. I was never active beyond paying my dues, reading the magazine, and posting on the message board.

I began to feel that the movers and shakers in the orginization only related to wealthy owners of large tracts of land (that's not me). I also felt the trophy aspect was overstated.

I did not really "leave" the QDMA. I just let my membership quietly expire. I still think they are a positive force in deer hunting, but they do not represent me well enough to earn my money.

I think the biggest message is that one can pratice QDM with or without the QDMA. The idea, the ethic and the conservation are all bigger than any club.

I am honored that you would consider me to be a strong advocate for QDM. I'd like to think I can continue to be so, simply by the force of my words and by my example. In my opinion, THAT is how ethics grow.
ORIGINAL: JPH

[quote]ORIGINAL: hunter480

JPH-

I`m dumbfounded. You`ve left QDMA?...

I`m just blown away that you`re not involved with QDMA anymore.



Yeah, don't read too much into it. I was never active beyond paying my dues, reading the magazine, and posting on the message board.

I began to feel that the movers and shakers in the orginization only related to wealthy owners of large tracts of land (that's not me). I also felt the trophy aspect was overstated. 

I did not really "leave" the QDMA. I just let my membership quietly expire. I still think they are a positive force in deer hunting, but they do not represent me well enough to earn my money.

I think the biggest message is that one can pratice QDM with or without the QDMA. The idea, the ethic and the conservation are all bigger than any club. 

I am honored that you would consider me to be a strong advocate for QDM. I'd like to think I can continue to be so, simply by the force of my words and by my example. In my opinion, THAT is how ethics grow. 


It is funny that you say that JPH, because I did the same thing with QDMA.  I even served as treasurer of the local branch for a couple of years, but felt the same way you did...that the "movers and shakers" of the organization were only catering to wealth landowners who owned more than 200 acres of land.  That's not me either.  I do believe in the tenets of the organization though and practice QDM principles and managing for better habitat for wildlife on my property.

And as far as Hunter 480's comment about "politically correct whitetail hunting", it isn't that at all.  It is about sound herd management practices that don't leave the buck to doe ration at 1:10.  It would help the herd a lot going into the winter because it would not stretch the rut out so long...1 1/2 year old bucks would not be servicing so many does and the buck population would go into winter in better health.  That sounds like wise stewardship of our natural resources to me.  Besides, not many polititians in Albany enjoy deer hunting, especially those from New York City.


I fully understand, and support wise stewardship of the resource, make no mistake about it.

What I take issue with, and what my comment was directed at, is curtailing hunting opportunities with the use of Antler Restrictions. AR`s are not a tool for keeping a herd healty, but instead, are a tool to supposedly create bigger racked bucks.

So, I was simply saying, why even call it deer hunting anymore?
[/quote] AR's are not a management tool? How else are you going to move young bucks into a older and larger population after decades of over harvest? You missed the point about herd management, thier are too many doe's in the herds compared to the buck populations in most states. Call it what you will, I'll stick with deer hunting.[8|]
"Let a young buck go, so he can grow."

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JPH
 
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RE: Pilot Antler Restriction Project

Postby JPH » Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:02 am

ORIGINAL: SyracuseBowhunter
 Maybe it is just our culture that insists on instant gratification that has influenced deer hunters into becoming lazy hunters that want everything convenient and easy...

 
Good point. I reject the idea that a buck tag equals the "right" to shoot a buck.
 
I am not a fan of APRs. I think they are a sloppy and miss the real mark. I would prefer later gun seasons and lots of education re. age class, but we've got to begin somwhere.

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JPH
 
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RE: Pilot Antler Restriction Project

Postby JPH » Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:03 am

ORIGINAL: EatDeer
 Maybe I'm just not as selfish when it comes to managing my land or herd for another hunters gain.    

 
Can you explain what you mean by this?

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SyracuseBowhunter
 
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RE: Pilot Antler Restriction Project

Postby SyracuseBowhunter » Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:08 am

We have restrictions on the size of bass, trout, northern pike, and many other kinds of fish in our lakes and streams, and nobody grouses about catching an undersized fish and putting it back so it can grow to a larger size.  What is the difference between size limits on our fish and size limits on our deer?  Both are tools to ensure we have better fishing and hunting experiences, and that our natural resources are managed more effectively.
"All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

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SyracuseBowhunter
 
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RE: Pilot Antler Restriction Project

Postby SyracuseBowhunter » Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:14 am

I agree with you 110% JPH.  It's not the size of the rack...it's the chance to hunt a mature animal on its own terms.  I think education would really help in clearing up a lot of misconceptions about QDM.  It is definitely not the same as trophy hunting for 200"+ deer.  Personally, I really enjoy the aspect of managing my property to benefit the health of the herd, provide better nutrition for bucks, does, and fawns, as well as turkeys, grouse, squirrels, etc.  It is not just about shooting deer with big racks.
"All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

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JOEL
 
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RE: Pilot Antler Restriction Project

Postby JOEL » Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:43 am

what about those who dont own property?
"Go afield with a good attitude, with respect for the wildlife you hunt and for the forest and fields in which you walk. Immerse yourself in the outdoor experience. It will cleanse your soul and make you a better person." - Fred Bear

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SyracuseBowhunter
 
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RE: Pilot Antler Restriction Project

Postby SyracuseBowhunter » Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:13 am

What about those who don't own property?  Size limits on fish apply state-wide.  All fish, except in privately owned ponds must be a certain size or you must put them back.  Why should limits on the size of deer be any different?  State land or privately owned land or leased land...it makes no difference.  Let the young 1 1/2 year old bucks go because they are undersized.  It would create a much better hunting experience for ALL within 2-3 years.
"All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

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