What should i do?

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EatDeer
 
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RE: What should I do?

Postby EatDeer » Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:25 am

ORIGINAL: SyracuseBowhunter

My wife and I own property in Chenango county in NY and behind the property is 6700 acres of state forest.  The neighbor that owns a home across the road from our property lives in Long Island and uses the home for a deer camp for his cousins, brothers, uncles and himself come deer season.  They own property on my side of the road adjacent to my property and farther down the road as well as behind his "deer camp".  With the whole group, if it is brown it is down.  I suppose they figure that if they travel all the way from Long Island, they should shoot something.  I've tried to talk to them about QDM and letting young bucks go so they can grow, but they don't want to hear it.  They think if they don't shoot it, someone else will.  The state land behind my property is a steep downhill to my property so hunters don't come in from the back side unless it is these guys from LI trying to catch deer coming off my property.  Three years ago I passed a 1 1/2 year old 7 pointer twice at 15 yards broadside only to see it hanging from their meatpole opening day of gun season.  The guy that shot it said, "It must be 175 pounds!"  I thought in my head as I looked on, "More like 125".  I went and got my scales so he could weigh it and it was 126 lbs.  Any suggestions on how to educate them to the benefits of QDM?
  You could order the landowner a subscription to QDMA's Quality Whitetails magazine. Maybe they would get the idea, that they could be harvesting from a better quality herd.  You could also make your land so thick and inviting to the deer, that once season is under way the deer won't want to venture very far away.  
"Let a young buck go, so he can grow."

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SyracuseBowhunter
 
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RE: What should I do?

Postby SyracuseBowhunter » Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:41 am

Thanks "Passin through" and "Eat deer" for the advice.  In the area where I own property they are increasing the antlerless deer permits this year because the deer herd is increasing in that part of the state.  I am sure they will apply for the extra permits, and I will encourage them to shoot more does instead of shooting small bucks.  When I bought the property 5 years ago, the first day I bowhunted I saw 14 does under 1 apple tree in 1 1/2 hours (but no bucks).  There are plenty of doe to shoot.
 
Actually I had the same idea as Eat deer.  I am going to contact a logger and have my property logged this winter after hunting season.  I want to turn it into a jungle so the deer feel safe.  I also want the logger to dig out 2 small ponds as water sources for the deer so they stay on my property.  I already have 3 food plots and am looking to increase that.  In Central New York there is a company called RPM Ecosystems that sells a number of oaks and the trees are 4-6' tall after only 18 months.  I planted some bur oak trees last fall (all survived) and I am going to plant more this September.  They bear acorns very quickly...usually 4-7 years after planting.  I'll get more in the spring to replenish the trees that are logged.
 
I have given them QDM material and articles about letting deer go until 3 1/2 or 4 1/2 years old, but they just aren't interested.  I think they just want to hunt and are missing the enjoyment that comes from managing property for better habitat for the deer and other wildlife.  I'm starting to get more grouse nesting on my land, and the turkeys love it.  I have trail cam pictures of flocks of turkeys eating in my foodplots as well as deer.  Being as steward of the land is a blast!  I wish they could catch that, but I think that having to travel from Long Island to their camp hinders that.  It's about a 3 1/2 hour drive for them.  The price of gas in NY now doesn't help that either.  I will keep trying though, even if it takes 15 years, it will be worth it and my kids will benefit from it later.
"All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

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EatDeer
 
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RE: What should I do?

Postby EatDeer » Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:36 am

Some hunters just don't understand how much fun it is to manage your land for deer. For me management opens the off season to doing hunting related projects. I wouldn't worry about them other guys, every deer they kill will just bring the herd closer to your land. I hunt a small parcel, but plan on hiring a tree planting company plant about 20 acres of conifer trees.  Those  hunters crowding me out now, will totally hate my guts after all the deer bed on my land. They will wish that they would have started a QDM program, but by then it will be too late to make a difference for them.[:D]   
"Let a young buck go, so he can grow."

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SyracuseBowhunter
 
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RE: What should I do?

Postby SyracuseBowhunter » Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:02 am

Hahaha.  That's a great idea!  I started enhancing a sanctuary with norway spruce this spring and plan to create thick funnels leading to my foodplots with more norway spruce in the spring.  I'm also going to talk to a logger to have my property logged in late December or early January, especially around the perimeter to turn it into a jungle so the deer head to my property at the sound of the first shots opening day.
"All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

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ranwin33
 
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RE: What should I do?

Postby ranwin33 » Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:44 am

There is probably not a lot you can do.  Education only works with those willing to be educated.  Doesn't sound like this group does, although don't stop trying.
 
We have a similar problem with the hunting club to our south.  While they claim to practice QDM, they preach against shooting does, and anything that meets antler restriction limitations imposed by the state will get shot.
 
We just smile though when they pack 14+ people into their 140 acre area and push the deer onto our property.  They don't see much after opening morning of gun season - and interestingly enough, they just don't seem to understand why.

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howhill1
 
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RE: What should I do?

Postby howhill1 » Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:42 pm

try giving them your back issue's of d&dh. i used to leave mine on the table in our cabin in hopes that my uncle and cousin's would pick them up and accidently learn somthing. even someone who would'nt look at qdm literature would pick up a mag called deer and deer hunting. worth a shot.
 
"please join the N.R.A. as well as your state rifle association! these are critical times for ALL gun owners. Be informed, be active and stay vigilant"

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SyracuseBowhunter
 
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RE: What should I do?

Postby SyracuseBowhunter » Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:02 pm

I think you are right...they just don't want to learn a better way to manage deer.  They just want to shoot anything that they see.  If they don't want to learn and aren't willing to improve their chances at a larger deer, there might not be much hope, unless I buy more property around them.
 
Howhill1...that is an excellent idea.  I have a pile of D&DH magazines from the last few years.  I'm going to my property tomorrow to meet with a logger to get an estimate.  I'll take a pile of the magazines and leave them in a garbage bag on their back porch.  Thanks for the suggestions!
"All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

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howhill1
 
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RE: What should I do?

Postby howhill1 » Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:21 pm

best of luck, dont give up hope. im sure i dont have to tell you to keep a close on the loggers that they keep in line with your intentions.. ive seen properties where they came in and just layed waste and left a huge mess.your right on though in making sanctuary conditions on your property. if your neighbors are how i picture them they definitely make thier presence known in the deer woods. given a safe close place the deer will defintly go there. the farm i hunt the late season on has about a 30 acre parclel of timber out in the open. it was established as a sanctuary(in fact thats what we call it)more than 50 years ago. when we drive the farms several patches the deer slowly gravitate to the "sanctuary". they can be seen going there in droves. they know there safe because no one ever sets foot in that patch of timber.
"please join the N.R.A. as well as your state rifle association! these are critical times for ALL gun owners. Be informed, be active and stay vigilant"

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SyracuseBowhunter
 
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RE: What should I do?

Postby SyracuseBowhunter » Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:43 pm

Thanks for the encouragement!  I won't give up.  And I've heard stories about logging companies trashing property and I won't tolerate that.  I'm going to spell it out very clearly right up front what I expect from them.  If they can't deliver, I'll check with other companies that can.  In Chenango County, the Department of Enviroronmental Conservation has a forester that comes for free and evaluates your property and then recommends local foresters with good reputations that clean up after themselves and work with the management plan to enhance habitat for wildlife.  I have a meeting with that forester in the early fall and run by him the companies that have given me estimates.  I'm not having it logged until early winter so that the heavy equipment doesn't tear up the ground so much and cause irrosion.
 
I want to make the edge of my property very thick, but the sancuaries are toward the inner section of the property where other hunters can't see them and I never set foot in those areas.  About 20% of the property is sanctuary.  Some are between foodplots on the property so they can bed down there and come out to several different foodplots to eat. 
"All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

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howhill1
 
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RE: What should I do?

Postby howhill1 » Sat Aug 09, 2008 7:21 am

sounds like youve gotta a good plan going. youll reap the benifits, it justs takes time.
"please join the N.R.A. as well as your state rifle association! these are critical times for ALL gun owners. Be informed, be active and stay vigilant"

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