Ethics Question

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chucksniper
 
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RE: Ethics Question

Postby chucksniper » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:29 am

As I have said before... The land I hunt, I know where I hunt, where the boarders are because of posts. My brother in law ran into a place where noone owned it, and checked the town hall parcel lists, and some guy nearby was trying to run him off, by flatting his quad tires and truck tires.
 
I guess some hunters get fed up with ignorant people like that and figure
(what's the use) of doing whats right.) (Which to me is not the right thing to do.) Guess just move on somewhere else and hope for the best? Truck and quad tires later.
 
I really think it more so anti-hunters that cause all this mayhem. My brother in law also told me that people also post PAST thier property to keep us out, and on the other side of the road.
 
So we have here BOTH sides to blame, more so the non-hunters. 
 
 

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JPH
 
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RE: Ethics Question

Postby JPH » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:55 am

ORIGINAL: chucksniper

As I have said before... The land I hunt, I know where I hunt, where the boarders are because of posts. My brother in law ran into a place where noone owned it, and checked the town hall parcel lists, and some guy nearby was trying to run him off, by flatting his quad tires and truck tires.

I guess some hunters get fed up with ignorant people like that and figure
(what's the use) of doing whats right.) (Which to me is not the right thing to do.) Guess just move on somewhere else and hope for the best? Truck and quad tires later.

I really think it more so anti-hunters that cause all this mayhem. My brother in law also told me that people also post PAST thier property to keep us out, and on the other side of the road.

So we have here BOTH sides to blame, more so the non-hunters. 



Chucksniper, your posts and your logic are becoming harder and harder for me to follow. Even so, I want to offer some common sense for those who may be lurking on this thread and feeling some level of sympathy for you.

A. The are no un-owned parcels of land! If a private owner does not hold the title, the gvt. does.

B. The quad tire sabotage by antis is an issue of hunter harassment, not one of land ownership.

C. A through knowledge of where you are, who the owner is, and express permission to be there will resolve your issue every time. Problem solved! 

chucksniper
 
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RE: Ethics Question

Postby chucksniper » Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:32 am

so if the gov't owns it, why are you so convinced I don't know this?

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scotman
 
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RE: Ethics Question

Postby scotman » Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:36 am

ORIGINAL: chucksniper

Farms are one thing, woods are another.... so you expect people to be surveyors? Does the tax office provide you with boarders?

Are people that lazy that they can't post?


Depending on how many acres you have it could get pretty exspensive. Your talking 50 Cents - 5$ per sign then if you post it using wood fence posts or metal fence posts, the initial amount for the fence posts. You talking a nice chunk of change if you have 50-100 acres or more...then just to go through all the work and have people tresspassing anyways with the signs up is enough to goad you.
"The deerskin rug on our study floor, the buck's head over the fireplace, what are these after all but the keys which have unlocked enchanted doors, and granted us not only health and vigor, but a fresh and fairer vision of existence" -Paul. Brandreth

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ranwin33
 
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Location: Kansas and Missouri

RE: Ethics Question

Postby ranwin33 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:37 am

ORIGINAL: chucksniper

As I have said before... The land I hunt, I know where I hunt, where the boarders are because of posts. My brother in law ran into a place where noone owned it, and checked the town hall parcel lists, and some guy nearby was trying to run him off, by flatting his quad tires and truck tires.

I guess some hunters get fed up with ignorant people like that and figure
(what's the use) of doing whats right.) (Which to me is not the right thing to do.) Guess just move on somewhere else and hope for the best? Truck and quad tires later.

I really think it more so anti-hunters that cause all this mayhem. My brother in law also told me that people also post PAST thier property to keep us out, and on the other side of the road.

So we have here BOTH sides to blame, more so the non-hunters. 


I doubt much of this has to do with anti-hunters, but you go ahead and try and throw that out there to sway people to your side. 
 
Most landowner problems arise from people who have no respect for another's property, or from those people that choose to ignore current game laws, or from those people who choose to try and find loopholes in the law rather than doing the right thing.
 
I've never had a problem because some anti-hunter decided to poach deer on my property, or some anti-hunter decided to road hunt my property, or some anti-hunter decided to trespass on my property.
 
Come to think of it, I haven't run into a single anti-hunter in the rural areas I've traveled or those where I grew up.  I think they're pretty much a non-issue when it comes to landowners having problems.
“There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other that heat comes from the furnace.”
Aldo Leopold

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ranwin33
 
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RE: Ethics Question

Postby ranwin33 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:41 am

ORIGINAL: scotman

Depending on how many acres you have it could get pretty exspensive. Your talking 50 Cents - 5$ per sign then if you post it using wood fence posts or metal fence posts, the initial amount for the fence posts. You talking a nice chunk of change if you have 50-100 acres or more...then just to go through all the work and have people tresspassing anyways with the signs up is enough to goad you.

We're real fortunate in Missouri - with the Purple Paint law.  To post a property all you have to do is go around and paint fence posts and trees with purple paint.  Makes it a whole lot easier than posting signs.  Of course the woods can get to looking a little funny in some areas.
“There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other that heat comes from the furnace.”
Aldo Leopold

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ranwin33
 
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Location: Kansas and Missouri

RE: Ethics Question

Postby ranwin33 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:04 am

ORIGINAL: chucksniper

so if the gov't owns it, why are you so convinced I don't know this?

 
How about post #68. 
 
ORIGINAL: chucksniper
It has nothing to do with my family and ANY land I hunt NOBODY owns...
Now.. do you want to continue to assume?
“There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other that heat comes from the furnace.”
Aldo Leopold

chucksniper
 
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RE: Ethics Question

Postby chucksniper » Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:09 am

Ok fellas,
            I just got off the phone with a local game warden about trespassing. Basically he said that parcel markings from the tax offices aren't surveying guides,  nor a definitive layout of a particular piece of land. All it is, is, a contact with the landowner, ie., phone number, address, and name of landowner.

Worst case senerio..... I call this "landowner" and am hunting say public land against his.... and he says, " I don't want you hunting my land", (that isn't posted) ok?.... so where do we go from here? The guy doesn't want to work with you about boundries.... if he does, I won, if he doesn't I lost and should move on. My point is, is, if the land isn't posted, then the guy isn't interested, in the first place, about wanting to be bothered "having" boundries, to keep people off his land.

Hey if I didn't care, I wouldn't have gone this far, and you wouldn't even know who I am, would you?

I do care.... you are encouraging me to make an effort to be courteous, and respectful, fine.... so what about you? Ok, you post and they take down your signs, bummer.... (post high enough to prevent signs from being torn down), I believe I have more of a legitimate grip. How can I practice ethics if landowners aren't willing to post thier property,
which is what the warden said also.That's the reason for the trespass rule that's stated in the digest, it doesn't seem landowners are willing to work with hunters tp prevent tresspass. And also I think the warden brought that up off the cuff, which that's the first thing he mentioned , so to me thats the main issue he has about this whole deal.

I think the benfit of the doubt would be the best thing for each encounter.

Heck I think the only one who took my advice is the guy up in PA,  told him to post his land and he did, imagne that!! And I stay off his land...
man that's ethical ain't it?[:)][:D] That would be nice if you all gave ME the benfit of the doubt... would ya?

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ranwin33
 
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RE: Ethics Question

Postby ranwin33 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:26 am

ORIGINAL: chucksniper

My point is, is, if the land isn't posted, then the guy isn't interested, in the first place, about wanting to be bothered "having" boundries, to keep people off his land.

You are making an assumption here that may or may not be true. 
 
If you are truly going to be respectful of someones rights and property then it is encumbant upon you to take the initiative to see that you do not trespass.
 
Get yourself a GPS, go to Google Earth, get a general idea of where property boundaries are, then stay away from them.
 
But if as you say, you've got 45 acres to hunt, why are you so adamant about your right to trespass on non-posted property.
 
As for what the game warden has said about the parcel markings, if they are like the plat maps I've seen of the property in our county than they're accurate enough that anyone wanting to not trespass wouldn't have a hard time staying off places they don't belong.  Again, it just seems to me you're looking to make excuses for this need you seem to have to trespass on other's property.
“There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other that heat comes from the furnace.”
Aldo Leopold

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scotman
 
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RE: Ethics Question

Postby scotman » Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:32 am

We're real fortunate in Missouri - with the Purple Paint law. To post a property all you have to do is go around and paint fence posts and trees with purple paint. Makes it a whole lot easier than posting signs. Of course the woods can get to looking a little funny in some areas.


Hmm I never knew that, yea that would take alot of work out of posting your land. I envy you seriously.

CS well you are a rare breed then because normally I would have to say most trespassers know they are trespassing whether posted signs are up or not. Personally I know all the surrounding land borders within a square mile of my hunting area. Most of them are posted but not posted legally but not going to take the chance of having a game warden breathe down my neck.

Here in NY you have to post your posted signs a certain height. Which it is eye level so posting them higher up on the tree by law is not possible. A trespassing conviction might not stick if they catch you on that technicality.
"The deerskin rug on our study floor, the buck's head over the fireplace, what are these after all but the keys which have unlocked enchanted doors, and granted us not only health and vigor, but a fresh and fairer vision of existence" -Paul. Brandreth

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