head on bow-shot

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Deebz
 
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RE: head on bow-shot

Postby Deebz » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:01 pm

I wonder how far apart he Jugular and Carotid vein/artery are... looking at JPH's pic of the broadside with the skeleton showing, how big of an area do you think you'd have to hit to successfully sever one or both?  I KNOW that would leave a huge blood trail...

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JPH
 
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RE: head on bow-shot

Postby JPH » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:15 pm

ORIGINAL: Deebz

I wonder how far apart he Jugular and Carotid vein/artery are... looking at JPH's pic of the broadside with the skeleton showing, how big of an area do you think you'd have to hit to successfully sever one or both?  I KNOW that would leave a huge blood trail...

 
I've done it, and not on purpose. I flinched on release and hit a doe in the neck. Luckally I took the carotid artery and as you said, it was a massive blood trail. But given the size of the neck, I got very lucky. I could have easily caused a wound that would have led to a sparse trail and a slow, wasteful death.

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Deebz
 
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RE: head on bow-shot

Postby Deebz » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:23 pm

My buddy and I were trailing a small buck he shot when we were kids one time and found a doe with an arrow in her neck.  The hole was HUGE, and she hadn't been dead but a day or so, but there wasn't much blood.  Have to figure the hunter couldn't find her due to lack of blood trail

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charlie 01
 
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RE: head on bow-shot

Postby charlie 01 » Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:17 am

Deebz, I never did look to see exactly where my arrow entered the ribcage. With all this interest, I wish I had. All I do know for sure is that my arrow had no trouble getting in, and first off hitting the heart, leaving a very noticable blood trail. And the arrow was completly buried in the animal, indicating very little resistance, also add the fact that I do not shoot a high poundage bow.
 
When I look at Joe's anatomy pics., the pictured deer facing us appears to have little or no bone stucture protecting the heart. Looking at that pic, I can visualize with a downward angled arrow, just how my arrow did the job it did.
 
I give credit to the kills I have made to the broadhead I use. I use the old Bear stainless steel heads with the razor insert. But I go a few steps further. It has a chisel point which I round off,( years ago when I first started, I talked to some old timers in Mich. and they prefered a rounded tip) and sharpen the head to my taste. It has to be very sharp and all around the the rounded point, cutting upon entry. It's nothing for me to spend 45min to an hour on a head. I believe and like, that for the most part, the rounded tip will go around bone and keep going, rather than try to go thru bone and loose energy. Now, I'm not discrediting any broadheads that are on the market or that anyone else uses. People use them all with success. I think a person that shoots a high poundage bow can do a lot of damage with any type of head. I prefer a poundage that I can draw on a deer while pointing straight at it. I see some bow hunters that have the bow so cranked up that they have to aim for the sky in order to draw it back. All that extra movement, would never work for me.
 
I would say, the next deer you get, take a good look at the inside front of the ribcage. As I said in the begining, my arrow had no resistance.  
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RE: head on bow-shot

Postby JPH » Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:22 am

ORIGINAL: charlie 01

I give credit to the kills I have made to the broadhead I use.


This raises a good point. I don't want to turn this into another fixed vs mechanical thread but I do think it is a valid thing to bring up here.

While I am far from the most experienced or accomplished bow hunter in the world, I have hunted and killed deer with both fixed and mechanical heads. My experience has shown that a good mechanical is superior when the point of impact is anywhere behind the shoulders of below the spine. But I admit that a fixed blade is more likely to penetrate when hitting bone.

I still do not advocate taking head on or quartering toward archery shots because you are going to have to get through solid bone. But if you do plan on making that choice, do it with a fixed blade.

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Deebz
 
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RE: head on bow-shot

Postby Deebz » Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:28 am

That's really interesting stuff about modifying your broadhead like that.  It makes total sense that a rounded head would move around bone instead of going through it.  I usually shoot a mechanical 3 blade with a 4th cut on contact blade for the point.  I really like the job they've done on the deer I've shot.  I think my bow is set somewhere in the upper 60's as far as poundage goes.  I haven't had it measured, but I've adjusted it to where I can draw straight back like you mentioned.  (my brother-in-law couldn't draw my bow at all though... so I know it's fairly high)
 
I guess in the end I'll still stick with trying to wait for a clean broadside or quartering away shot... I just know I wouldn't be worrying about making a bad shot from that angle. 

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RE: head on bow-shot

Postby Rubydog » Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:32 am

DON'T DO IT ! Waaaay Tooo Much can go wrong....... Margin of Error Too Great .........

Shooting an animal with bow & arrow is an extremely dynamic situation ....... one which you do not fully control in this stuation.

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charlie 01
 
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RE: head on bow-shot

Postby charlie 01 » Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:50 am

I see the Rage and the Rocky Mountain Snyper mechanicals have cutting blade tips. I think that is a good thing. I would make sure, that blade is as sharp as could be. I'm old school and don't trust anything from the manufacturer or to chance. I'm not fond of the bullet or pointed mechanical heads. I once took a fresh deer skin and pushed a pointed head through and found that my knife sharp rounded fixed blade went through with a lot less effort. It might not be such a big thing, but everything counts in my book. I try to go beyond, to make sure of a quick kill. Again, I'm not telling anyone not to use pointed mechanicals. These are my findings and my thoughts. 
 
 
Getting back to those anatony pics that Joe posted. Am I alone here. Dosn't anyone see that open hole in the front of the rib cage? In fact all the pics Joe put on show the same. No protective bone structure in the front of the rib cage. I don't know, maybe I'm the goofy one. But, I can sure see why my arrow did such a good job.
never say never
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Deebz
 
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RE: head on bow-shot

Postby Deebz » Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:27 am

ImageThese are the ones I've been using lately. I used to shoot Muzzy fixed blades, but I just feel the accuracy of an expandable is better. 
 
I do see what you are talking about with the opening in the bone structure, Charlie.  From a treestand/elevated position I see how you can get an arrow into the vitals quite easily.  From what I recall though, most of the guys would argue that you run the risk of only getting 1 lung.  Plus the fact that the opening on the front end is much smaller than the area you've got for a quick killing shot at a broadside or quartering away angle. 
 
But yeah, I'd love to have had the success that you have, so keep on sticking them anyway you can. 

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RE: head on bow-shot

Postby charlie 01 » Sat Dec 18, 2010 2:23 am

Looks like it should do a good job Deebz. I'm not crazy about the pointed blade, but thats just me.
 
 Hey, I don't strive to shoot deer any old way. I too prefer and believe quartering away shots at deer are the best to take. But, things don't always work out that way. That frontal shot buck was my one and only attempt. I only brought it up to let it be known, it can be done if conditions are right. I evaluated the situation at hand, knew that this was going to be my only chance at him and felt I could accomplish what I wanted, and took the shot. With him being eye to eye, and that close, it was now or never. Also he never attempted, or had a chance to "jump the string". I knew a hunter that accomplished this hit about 5 years ago with good success. I based my decision on that. I do understand that a lot of hunters are uncomfortable and or would flat out not take the shot, and I respect their decision what ever it may be. In all the years I've put into bow hunting, this happened to be the first straight on hit. So be it.
 
Yes it is a smaller target. I can't deneigh that. But look at all the bad hits that hunters post at that larger broadside target. Hey I've had my share too. I know things "happen". I can't drive tacks as some people have stated, but I can hit what I want at a reasonable distance. Practice and being proficient with your bow and equipment is what its all about.
never say never
patience is the companion of wisdom

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