The Truth About Deer Lungs

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Everyday Hunter
 
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RE: The Truth About Deer Lungs

Postby Everyday Hunter » Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:43 am

ORIGINAL: Squirrelhawker

A number of years ago I ran some deer out of a creekbottom to my brother in-law. He dropped the six pointer and a doe. The sign told me I had interupted a little breeding activity.

Upon dressing out the buck, the knife blade hit what he thought was his slug but turned out to be the broken shaft of an arrow with a mech head that failed to open. Under the spine, but over the lungs. There is a "dead space" but it is small and is outside the chest cavity proper.

I'm not doubting your story at all, Squirrelhawker. I believe that this happened just as you say. But with that definition of "dead space," a deer has lots of dead spaces. My view is that your story is more a testament to the deer's ability to survive a wound than it is to the existence of a dead space.

Steve
When the Everyday Hunter isn't hunting, he's thinking about hunting, talking about hunting, dreaming about hunting, writing about hunting, or wishing he were hunting.
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Goose
 
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RE: The Truth About Deer Lungs

Postby Goose » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:26 am

Thanks Drdaven, I really enjoy your input and expertise.
Jake

Genesis 27:3 Take your bow and quiver full of arrows out into the open country, and hunt some wild game.....

Squirrelhawker
 
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RE: The Truth About Deer Lungs

Postby Squirrelhawker » Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:43 am

ORIGINAL: Everyday Hunter

ORIGINAL: Squirrelhawker

A number of years ago I ran some deer out of a creekbottom to my brother in-law. He dropped the six pointer and a doe. The sign told me I had interupted a little breeding activity.

Upon dressing out the buck, the knife blade hit what he thought was his slug but turned out to be the broken shaft of an arrow with a mech head that failed to open. Under the spine, but over the lungs. There is a "dead space" but it is small and is outside the chest cavity proper.

I'm not doubting your story at all, Squirrelhawker. I believe that this happened just as you say. But with that definition of "dead space," a deer has lots of dead spaces. My view is that your story is more a testament to the deer's ability to survive a wound than it is to the existence of a dead space.

Steve

 
Absolutely, no question. Hence my quotation marks [:)] 
 
I think one of the ways things like this get started is a lot of folks lack of detailed knowledge of deer anatomy. It certainly happens that one can slip an arrow under the spine and not hurt anything much at all. Yet the shot appears amidships, in the chest region. Hence, the dead space theory. That buck carried that arrow section in him all bow season and most of gun, and was literally caught in the act of breeding.
 
And weirdly, last year that same brother in-law hammered yet another six with his ML right on top of the shoulder. And, (scouts honor here) drove a badly placed fixed blade broadhead that was lodged in the shoulder right into the chest. The broad head had a nice crescent shape punched out of it by the slug, and the scarring and fibrin was clearly evident underneath the shoulder blade. He found it free floating in what was left of the bucks lungs.
 
We decided then and there that he had to be the unluckiest buck on the planet:
 
Shot with an arrow that lodges in his shoulder, carries it for a month and then, while following a doe gets shot with a slug that not only kills him but hits and drives the broadhead into him as well. Clearly, he had a bad day [:D]

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Everyday Hunter
 
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RE: The Truth About Deer Lungs

Postby Everyday Hunter » Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:41 am

Your brother-in-law must shoot bullets that are somehow attracted to broadheads!

Steve 
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Squirrelhawker
 
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RE: The Truth About Deer Lungs

Postby Squirrelhawker » Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:04 am

ORIGINAL: Everyday Hunter

Your brother-in-law must shoot bullets that are somehow attracted to broadheads!

Steve 

 
A strange phenomena indeed!

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buckhunter21
 
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RE: The Truth About Deer Lungs

Postby buckhunter21 » Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:09 am

Thanks Drdaven, I really enjoy your input and expertise.

 
I agree, there is some really good information going on here....Thanks again!
QDM!

PowerhouseRowe
 
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RE: The Truth About Deer Lungs

Postby PowerhouseRowe » Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:51 pm

I'm an archery hunter of 10 years now. Coincidentally, I am also a biochemistry graduate student who is currently a TA for a Mammalian Physiology course. To take this one step further, yesterday I made one of these so-called 'no man's land' shots on a buck.
 
With what I know concerning how the pleural cavity is set up, inspiration occurs via a volume increase in the chest which is done by the diaphragm. The peural cavity is surrounded by a membrane folded on itself. This pleural membrane sticks to the walls of the chest cavity and up along the spine. The membrane of the pleural cavity encases the lungs and lets them expand. This cavity has an effective air pressure which is lower than atmospheric air pressure; this keeps the lungs expanded regardless of inhalation/exhalation. When this cavity is ruptured, the pressure inside equalizes with atmospheric pressure, causing a collapsed lung. Thus, if you truely hit below the spine, you have at least cut the pleural membrane (causing a collapsed lung) and almost definitely punctured a lung since the lung never 'shrinks down' in size since it is connected to the pleural membrane. What all of this means is that there isn't any space available between the spine and the lungs if they are operating properly.
 
So last night I take a shot at a buck who was closer than I thought; I hit high, with 3/4 of my arrow sticking out the far side of the deer while some fletching could be seen on the entrance side. My first instinct was that I've got this deer since I had to hit the lung. I saw a small amount of blood but the darkness forced me to wait until this morning to continue tracking. What I found was disappointment. Very very little blood and no deer or arrow. At first I started blaming the 'dead-zone' but upon further thought I am almost positive that I hit the space above the spinal cord; there is much more space there than I'd normally think.
 
At the end of the day, I bet most of these dead-zone stories are a combination of hunters not realizing the amount of room available above the spine and a poor shot. The reason the myth continues is because no one wants to admit the second.

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Everyday Hunter
 
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RE: The Truth About Deer Lungs

Postby Everyday Hunter » Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:46 pm

Good post, PowerhouseRowe. And, welcome to the D&DH forums.

ORIGINAL: PowerhouseRowe

... upon further thought I am almost positive that I hit the space above the spinal cord; there is much more space there than I'd normally think.

At the end of the day, I bet most of these dead-zone stories are a combination of hunters not realizing the amount of room available above the spine and a poor shot. The reason the myth continues is because no one wants to admit the second.

Been there, done that. I agree 100%.

Steve
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paulie
 
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RE: The Truth About Deer Lungs

Postby paulie » Sat Dec 05, 2009 1:45 pm

At the end of the day, I bet most of these dead-zone stories are a combination of hunters not realizing the amount of room available above the spine and a poor shot. The reason the myth continues is because no one wants to admit the second.



Well said! It's hard enough to 'know' you made a bad shot it's even harder to tell someone else about it!! But, I think most (not all but most) of us at some point or another have made a "bad shot". I know I have.. BTW, welcome to the boards.

hookset6969
 
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RE: The Truth About Deer Lungs

Postby hookset6969 » Wed Dec 23, 2009 1:57 pm

My buddy get's at least one of these dead space lung shot's every year, I'm still waiting for him to just fess up and say he is a piss poor shot , or doesn't do so well under presure. I'm no expert on the dead space deal but I do know if you hit them 4-5" below the spine you don't have to worry about dead space, especially in your freezer.

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