QDM Splinter Group?

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smitty
 
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RE: QDM Splinter Group?

Postby smitty » Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:24 am

I understand what Goose and Ranwin33 mean.  I dont think its right to look down your nose at any Hunter but we are all looking to keep healthy happy herds.  My main concern is with small parcel and state land hunters.  Which is what I am.  If someone came up to you and said, just shoot eight pointers or better, and someone else walked up and said, lets let the 1.5 year old bucks go what would you say?  Id go with 1.5 year old representative because I would think a hunter would notice the difference sooner,  and maybe continue. 
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JPH
 
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RE: QDM Splinter Group?

Postby JPH » Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:41 am

ORIGINAL: ranwin33

Call me stupid.  What is the different emphasis?

I agree an letting them survive to 2.5 will help, I'm just willing in most instances to give them a little extra help and let them walk another year beyond that.


I tried really hard to address your first question in the OP. It is my opinion that the QDM movement is too wrapped up in B&C scores, food plots and snobbish attitudes. Not QDM in print, mind you. I'm talking about QDM in actual practice.

As for the age restrictions. Please note that I listed my 10 commandments in order of importance. Restrictions on buck harvest do not appear until #8. I also suggested that if a person chooses to hunt for older deer they can. I tend to do that myself, but it is a personal issue.

Ranwin33, you seem to be happy with the QDM movement as it is. That is fine. Splinter groups are for those who feel they are outside of the main stream movement for one reason or another. That's me.

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ranwin33
 
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RE: QDM Splinter Group?

Postby ranwin33 » Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:01 am

ORIGINAL: smitty

I understand what Goose and Ranwin33 mean.  I dont think its right to look down your nose at any Hunter but we are all looking to keep healthy happy herds.  My main concern is with small parcel and state land hunters.  Which is what I am.  If someone came up to you and said, just shoot eight pointers or better, and someone else walked up and said, lets let the 1.5 year old bucks go what would you say?  Id go with 1.5 year old representative because I would think a hunter would notice the difference sooner,  and maybe continue. 

I'd have to agree with you.
“There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other that heat comes from the furnace.”
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ranwin33
 
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RE: QDM Splinter Group?

Postby ranwin33 » Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:02 am

ORIGINAL: JPH
...
Ranwin33, you seem to be happy with the QDM movement as it is. That is fine. Splinter groups are for those who feel they are outside of the main stream movement for one reason or another. That's me.

Not a problem.  Thought I'd try to contribute here, but I can go elsewhere.
“There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other that heat comes from the furnace.”
Aldo Leopold

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upatreestand75
 
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RE: QDM Splinter Group?

Postby upatreestand75 » Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:25 am

Just curious.  Is the biggest difference just not griiping if someone wants to kill a young deer?  I have to read it again.  I will tell you that I agree with direction some people are taking their management on a different path of just big racks.  I was raised in a farming community and I am a lifelong hunter.  I was taught by the generations before me of how important the land is.  It would be great to see where this goes.  Put me down and know that I am more than happy to share my input.  I think people should have the opportunity to be part of a group that doesnt care how muchland or money they have.  Taking care of the earth and its wildlife , so that they are fruitful for all our days, should be the concern of all sportsmen.  This simple cause has zero financial boundaries.  We need to educate to all interested the practice of True Land Management.  This land was never ours to take, but it's always been our responsibility to protect it and maintain it so that future generations have the chance to kill what they want.  Be it a yearling basket or a six yearold Booner.

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shaman
 
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RE: QDM Splinter Group?

Postby shaman » Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:31 am

I'm always up for a little bit of iconoclasm. 

JPH:  Just a few months ago, I was kind of saying the same sort of thing and you told me I was missing the point and QDM WAS the thing I was talking about.  Now you got my head spinning.

As to naming this thing, I'm not real happy with "Quality."  If anyone's been through one of the myriad quality programs that companies mount, you know that it's usually a code-word for useless hand-wringing.  I should know; I was a quality manager at one point in my career.  I am a child of Deming. If you want a TQM project for your organization, I'm you're guy.

Quality in this realm should mean: "Conforms to the specification." or "Conforms to the goal."

I think that should be where this thing gets centered;  let's not worry about big antlers or proper age distribution or buck/doe ratios.  The thing that I think gets people torqued up about this subject is that QDM pre-supposes a certain set of criteria for quality that not everyone buys into. I would think if you really want to form a reasonable alternative to QDM, I'd toss those 10 points-- they're too much like QDM. Instead, I would take it from this perspective:

1)  What is it that you want to get out of deer hunting?
2)  What goals will get you there?
2)  How do you reach those goals?

It doesn't have to be all about age and antler restrictions, food plots, and that sort of thing.

Take a look at me. My main goal was this:  Give a chance for myself and my kids to hunt deer and turkey without a lot of hassle.  I wanted a place to go to on the weekends and hunt undisturbed and unperturbed.  I didn't want people shooting at me anymore.  I didn't want to worry about losing access to the land after a season or two.  I wanted to have a spot that I could hunt in my old age, and a place where I could take grandchildren out.

The big racks and the big herd and all that were after effects.  They sort of still are.  I just like being in the woods with the deer and the turkey, and I occasionally like busting a cap on one when I feel like it.  My kids aren't worried about big racks yet.  I've shot a few, and I've seen a few more.  However, when the 11 yr old gets to watch from the treestand as a button buck and a doe fawn suckle on their mother-- how can you prioritize something like that?

Good conservation is all well and good. However, most good conservation can get solved by just being lazy with the bush hog. Big racks are all well and good, but they're a slippery slope and I always feel guys are missing the point when they start talking down a 120 inch rack.  Talk to me about maximizing my work-to-fun ratio. Tell me how to optimize my sons' WOWIE-ZOWIE events.    Tell me how to get those does to come out and suckle their young while I'm having my cocktails in the evening. Tell me how to increase my slack quotient.



 
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Patriot
 
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RE: QDM Splinter Group?

Postby Patriot » Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:57 am

ORIGINAL: Goose
To me, a year and half here and there to a person who is happy with it, does not bother me one bit. I was there and enjoyed it as well, I look forward to enjoying it with you.


 
I'll tell you what...I'll smoke the first 1.5 year old that comes by.  After that I will pass on them for the rest of the season.  It's like Diet QDM I guess.[:)]  I like to get some meat in the freezer and taste the feeling of the kill....I'm not going to lie to ya.
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Swandog09
 
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RE: QDM Splinter Group?

Postby Swandog09 » Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:01 pm

JPH,  I like it!  I thought of couple options for names.
 
1) Quality Conservation Movement to symbolize the breaking away from QDM.  Or the "M" could be for Management as well either way it (QCM)
2) Quality Property & Wildlife Management (QPWM)
 
That's why they call it hunting and not getting

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JPH
 
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RE: QDM Splinter Group?

Postby JPH » Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:09 pm

ORIGINAL: ranwin33

ORIGINAL: JPH
...
Ranwin33, you seem to be happy with the QDM movement as it is. That is fine. Splinter groups are for those who feel they are outside of the main stream movement for one reason or another. That's me.

Not a problem.  Thought I'd try to contribute here, but I can go elsewhere.


No, you are misreading me. This new form of QDM must me founded on the idea that all are welcome. It just strikes me, from this conversation and others, that you are part of the "QDM establishment". Nothing wrong with that.

I'm just rocking the boat.

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JPH
 
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RE: QDM Splinter Group?

Postby JPH » Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:31 pm

ORIGINAL: upatreestand75

...I was raised in a farming community and I am a lifelong hunter.  I was taught by the generations before me of how important the land is.  It would be great to see where this goes.  Put me down and know that I am more than happy to share my input.  [color="#ff0000"]I think people should have the opportunity to be part of a group that doesnt care how muchland or money they have.[/color]  Taking care of the earth and its wildlife , so that they are fruitful for all our days, should be the concern of all sportsmen.  [color="#ff0000"]This simple cause has zero financial boundaries.[/color]  We need to educate to all interested the practice of True Land Management.  This land was never ours to take, but it's always been our responsibility to protect it and maintain it so that future generations have the chance to kill what they want.  Be it a yearling basket or a six yearold Booner.


Great, great post. I have to admit that I really wanted to put something in there about "without regard to financial status or acres controlled", but I did not know how to say it. Thanks for doing that for me.

So, do you want to be an officer in this thing?

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