QDM Splinter Group?

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ranwin33
 
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RE: QDM Splinter Group?

Postby ranwin33 » Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:24 am

Since this "splinter group" is in its' forming stages I thought I'd throw out my 2 cents on possible changes to JPH's original 10 "commandements".  In no particular order of importance.
 
1) We must focus first on the importance and glory of all creation. Conservation efforts must be about the entire eco-system, and we should strive for a deeper understanding of nature and how all things fit into it.

2) We must respect game laws and all those who follow them! Poachers and those who do not respect the laws are the enemy.
3) We must share what we learn with others – openly, freely and without judgments, and we must accept such sharing with the good intent it is meant.
4) We must make a good faith effort to positively impact the habitat in which we hunt, for the benefit of the herd, all wildlife, and all flora and fauna.
5) We must support young and inexperienced hunters in their efforts to kill the first legal deer that offers a good shot and meets their goals. We must celebrate this event with them. We must mean in.
6) We must make a good faith effort to kill an appropriate number of does. When we fill our freezers, we must share the meat, never wasting what we kill.
7) Experienced hunters should make an effort to pass on yearling bucks and button bucks, unless special circumstances exist. Hunters should take into account the age structure of the herd specific to their hunting area when making decisions about shooting deer beyond 1.5 years of age.
8) We must constantly re-evaluate the impact of what we are doing and change it as we see the need.
9) We must have fun. We must mean it.
 
10) We must not dilute these standards for fear of offending or excluding other hunters. We acknowledge that while these standards are not for everyone, we believe they positively influence the habitat and wildlife for which we are stewards, and that stewardship above all else has primary importance.
“There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other that heat comes from the furnace.”
Aldo Leopold

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JPH
 
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RE: QDM Splinter Group?

Postby JPH » Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:26 am

ORIGINAL: ranwin33

From what you have described, IT IS QDM.  I'm not seeing the splinter group thing here, because basically all 10 of your points tend to be subscribing practices of QDM'ers.  I think upatreestand75 hit it on the head when he said the biggest difference is just not griping.

I do not and have not seen a majority of QDM'ers wrapped up in B&C scores, food plots and snobbish attitudes, unless they are wrapped up in those things as they relate to Quality Deer Management.  Granted, I don't visit a great many other forums, but I have not seen those characteristics you describe on this forum. 

I am happy with the QDM movement because I choose not to look at the extremes of it and focus on the core elements and founding principles on which it was built.  Which takes me back to my original point in this post, I'm not seeing the splinter group thing here - what you describe is pretty much QDM.


Again, yes I agree that it is QDM. The idea behind a splinter group is not to destroy a movement, it is to renew a movement and return it to it's founding principals. One of the biggest things I have tried to do is place things in their rightful order and specifically discourage the arrogance that I think has infected the movement.

I do not know if a majority of QDMers are wrapped up in wrapped up in B&C scores, food plots and snobbish attitudes but those who are are very prominent. And I would say that those attitudes do exist on this forum. I do not want to pick any wounds here, but I suspect that you know what thread gave life to this one.

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JPH
 
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RE: QDM Splinter Group?

Postby JPH » Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:29 am

ORIGINAL: msbadger

What a differance a year makes,,,,,God bless the forums and enlightenment [;)]


Haha! Amen!

I do hope you would agree that while I am as excited about big antlers as much as the next hunter, I have always tried to keep that in perspective. I just have not seen enough of that from some others who claim to be QDM.

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JPH
 
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RE: QDM Splinter Group?

Postby JPH » Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:35 am

ORIGINAL: ranwin33

5) We must support young and inexperienced hunters in their efforts to kill the first legal deer that offers a good shot and meets their goals. We must celebrate this event with them. We must mean[color="#ff0000"] in[/color].



Glad to see my typo got by you too.

I like the direction this is taking. We're going to have to hold a meeting somewhere and hammer this thing out!

By the way. I like your version of that rule better. I mean in.

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ranwin33
 
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RE: QDM Splinter Group?

Postby ranwin33 » Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:36 am

ORIGINAL: JPH

How does this sound?

Rule #8 Experienced hunters shall mutually agree, for biological reasons, that yearling bucks should represent a small percentage of the deer harvest. The method for controlling yearling buck harvest is up to the individual hunting parties and landowners. Any restrictions beyond 1.5 years are strictly up to the individual hunter. We must celebrate this event with them. We must mean it.

This sounds like something that came out of one of our college committees - designed to make everyone happy but having no real substance.  As this is written, doesn't it fly in the face of #5 as it's pretty much a given that for the benefit of the herd yearling bucks should be allowed to walk.
 
How about #8 Experienced hunters shall mutually agree that yearling bucks should not be killed unless special circumstances exist.  Any restrictions beyond 1.5 years are strictly up to the individual hunter as he or she believes it best benefits the habitat where they hunt. We must celebrate this event with them. We must mean it.
“There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other that heat comes from the furnace.”
Aldo Leopold

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ranwin33
 
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RE: QDM Splinter Group?

Postby ranwin33 » Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:45 am

ORIGINAL: JPH

Again, yes I agree that it is QDM. The idea behind a splinter group is not to destroy a movement, it is to renew a movement and return it to it's founding principals. One of the biggest things I have tried to do is place things in their rightful order and specifically discourage the arrogance that I think has infected the movement.

I do not know if a majority of QDMers are wrapped up in wrapped up in B&C scores, food plots and snobbish attitudes but those who are are very prominent. And I would say that those attitudes do exist on this forum. I do not want to pick any wounds here, but I suspect that you know what thread gave life to this one.

OK - I can go along with what you're saying about a splinter group, because I had a different understanding of what one was.
 
I really cannot say one way or another about the attitudes of prominent people relating to QDM.  Truthfully, if they're not on this forum then I don't see them - and the likes of Charles Alsheimer, John Ozaga, Les Davenport, and that group of guys who sit around the fire pit on the QDM show have never struck me as being arrogant about QDM. 
 
No problem picking wounds, but it does bother me a bit that you include me in the "arrogant group" when all I'm trying to do is say "hey, what good are standards if we're not willing to stand behind and support them."  And I only say that based upon your alluding to the tread that gave life to this one.
“There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other that heat comes from the furnace.”
Aldo Leopold

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ranwin33
 
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RE: QDM Splinter Group?

Postby ranwin33 » Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:46 am

ORIGINAL: JPH

[Glad to see my typo got by you too.

I like the direction this is taking. We're going to have to hold a meeting somewhere and hammer this thing out!

By the way. I like your version of that rule better. I mean in.

Quilt Country Diner - Lamoni, Iowa.  All you can eat buffet Friday evenings.  [:)]
“There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other that heat comes from the furnace.”
Aldo Leopold

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JPH
 
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RE: QDM Splinter Group?

Postby JPH » Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:42 am

ORIGINAL: ranwin33

ORIGINAL: JPH

Rule #8 Experienced hunters shall mutually agree, for biological reasons, that yearling bucks should represent a small percentage of the deer harvest. The method for controlling yearling buck harvest is up to the individual hunting parties and landowners. Any restrictions beyond 1.5 years are strictly up to the individual hunter. We must celebrate this event with them. We must mean it.


...As this is written, doesn't it fly in the face of #5 as it's pretty much a given that for the benefit of the herd yearling bucks should be allowed to walk.



No I don't think so.

Rule #5 reads. "We must make a good faith effort to positively impact the habitat in which we hunt, for the benefit of the herd and all wildlife."

I do not see where a "small percentage" yearling buck harvest hurts the herd and it certainly does not fly in the face of "good faith effort". Again, I do not see this as managing deer like a herd of cattle. There is a lot of deeply personal stuff that goes into it. As hard as QDM Tecnocrats try to make it deer farming, it never will be.

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JPH
 
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RE: QDM Splinter Group?

Postby JPH » Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:44 am

ORIGINAL: ranwin33
...it does bother me a bit that you include me in the "arrogant group" when all I'm trying to do is say "hey, what good are standards if we're not willing to stand behind and support them."  And I only say that based upon your alluding to the tread that gave life to this one.


Nope, I wasn't referring to you. That's why I did not want to go there.

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Goose
 
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RE: QDM Splinter Group?

Postby Goose » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:23 am

I will reply to this thread better when I get more time...
Here are some names I came up with that may be a little more sexy.
QCTNR-Quality Commitment to Natural Resources.
A little long but if you say it in french, it sounds really sexy!

QCP- Quality Conservation Program. Are you down with QCP?
Jake

Genesis 27:3 Take your bow and quiver full of arrows out into the open country, and hunt some wild game.....

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