QDM Splinter Group?

Discuss Quality Deer Management issues here!
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buckhunter21
 
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RE: QDM Splinter Group?

Postby buckhunter21 » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:25 am

ORIGINAL: stumpsitter66

It has been a long time since I have been on this site. My spouse has been ill which has taken up a lot of my energys. Interesting points JPH. If I recall Charles Alsheimer suggested something very recently called Percentage Principle Management. Basically he said revert to having fun for all but if you are a buck hunter then challenge yourself to hunting your land's Top 10 percent for bucks. IMO the qdm bubble has burst, as has been documented so well in all of the points made in your post.

Stump

 
I like your opinion on this.  It is individually-based.  You have to have fun to keep on doing it, or to want to do it!
 
Hope your home situation gets better...We miss ya over here!
QDM!

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buckhunter21
 
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RE: QDM Splinter Group?

Postby buckhunter21 » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:26 am

QCP- Quality Conservation Program. Are you down with QCP?

 
I like it.  Sign me up!
QDM!

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JPH
 
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RE: QDM Splinter Group?

Postby JPH » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:35 am

ORIGINAL: buckhunter21

QCP- Quality Conservation Program. Are you down with QCP?


I like it.  Sign me up!


See? Now we're getting somewhere!

How about Quality Deer Geekdomhood (QDG)?

Or maybe the Fraternal Order of Deer Geeks (FODG)?

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JPH
 
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RE: QDM Splinter Group?

Postby JPH » Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:23 am

All joking aside, I think I might have a name we can agree on. Principled Deer Management (PDM). Let me explain.

First of all, this name keeps us very close to the original name of Quality Deer Management. I see no reason to distance the movement from QDM. It is the foundation for this movement and I think they should remain close.

I have removed the word "Quality" because, as Shaman put so well, it is a loaded phrase. Many people take it to imply that some deer are not of quality. This is something I'd like to correct. I was thinking that instead of the commandments listed in the OP, we could refer to them as "Principals". Hence the name.

There has been a good argument made to replace the word "Deer" with "Wildlife". But let's admit that this is a movement by deer hunters, for deer hunters. Granted, all wildlife will benefit (see principals 1,3 & 5), but it is the whitetail that brings us together.

Finally, I have reluctantly kept the word "Management". Truth be told, I've always had more trouble with that word than I have with "Quality". I really dislike the notion that we manage wildlife. That implies ownership to me. I prefer to view myself as participating in nature in a positive way. Unfortunately that does not roll off the tongue well, so I move to keep it as is.

Anyway, just another idea.

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ranwin33
 
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RE: QDM Splinter Group?

Postby ranwin33 » Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:11 am

ORIGINAL: JPH

ORIGINAL: ranwin33
...it does bother me a bit that you include me in the "arrogant group" when all I'm trying to do is say "hey, what good are standards if we're not willing to stand behind and support them."  And I only say that based upon your alluding to the tread that gave life to this one.


Nope, I wasn't referring to you. That's why I did not want to go there.

Appreciate that - I know I can get a bit passionate about managing our farm and yes, I have been accused of being arrogant, at least in my younger days, so the term always rankles me a bit.
“There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other that heat comes from the furnace.”
Aldo Leopold

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ranwin33
 
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RE: QDM Splinter Group?

Postby ranwin33 » Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:14 am

ORIGINAL: Goose

I will reply to this thread better when I get more time...
Here are some names I came up with that may be a little more sexy.
QCTNR-Quality Commitment to Natural Resources.
A little long but if you say it in french, it sounds really sexy!

QCP- Quality Conservation Program. Are you down with QCP?

If we're trying for something sexy, how about Quality Live Nude Deer Program.
“There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other that heat comes from the furnace.”
Aldo Leopold

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Everyday Hunter
 
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RE: QDM Splinter Group?

Postby Everyday Hunter » Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:21 am

I don't think the term "Principled Deer Management" will work unless your aim is to fire a new salvo in the deer wars -- and I don't think that's your intention.

If the word "Quality" is loaded, so is the word "Principled," perhaps more so. "Principled" implies ethics, so the name implies that all other types of deer management (quality deer management  or QDM, traditional deer management or TDM, and trophy deer management) are unethical, and that is a battle you don't want to fight. (By the way, if we're going to know what quality deer management is, we also need to know what traditional deer management and trophy deer management are.)

Apparently not enough of us know that quality deer management is not focused on what is harvested. It is focused on habitat. Of course, critics will be quick to say that too many QDM advocates focus on antler size. I can't deny that, but ANY deer management "doctrine" will produce hunters whose practice is not in line with their doctrine. That will be true of Principled Deer Management as much as it is QDM, because people are people.

When I first became acquainted with the QDMA, I quickly came to realize that quality deer managers actually manage habitat through a variety of means including managing harvest numbers (both doe and buck), and various efforts to produce healthy habitat. QDM is actually quality deer habitat management, and it benefits every species that shares habitat with whitetails.

It's unfortunate if Quality Deer Management implies to some that the emphasis is on harvesting "quality deer," because it isn't, just as Principled Deer Management does not place an emphasis on harvesting "principled deer." What you really mean when you're talking about "principled deer management" is "principled management of deer." So, also, "quality deer management" means "quality management of deer," and it has principles too.

Finally, I fail to see how the term "principled deer management" helps, because it doesn't say anything about habitat management. On that point, it isn't any better than the term "quality deer management."

I think the best we can do is continue teaching and informing about what quality deer management is. "It's about habitat," as Charles Alsheimer once (probably many times) wrote in an article in the magazine we love so much. 

Steve
When the Everyday Hunter isn't hunting, he's thinking about hunting, talking about hunting, dreaming about hunting, writing about hunting, or wishing he were hunting.
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ranwin33
 
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RE: QDM Splinter Group?

Postby ranwin33 » Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:28 am

I like the term Quality Deer Habitat Management. 
 
I think it encompasses what we are trying to do and even addresses the issue of deer harvest, because if you are to have quality deer habitat you must manage the herd using the habitat.  Plus it takes out the idea of managing deer and places the onus on managing habitat for them.
“There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other that heat comes from the furnace.”
Aldo Leopold

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Everyday Hunter
 
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RE: QDM Splinter Group?

Postby Everyday Hunter » Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:32 am

ORIGINAL: ranwin33

I like the term Quality Deer Habitat Management. 

I think it encompasses what we are trying to do and even addresses the issue of deer harvest, because if you are to have quality deer habitat you must manage the herd using the habitat.  Plus it takes out the idea of managing deer and places the onus on managing habitat for them.

You are right. Deer have more impact on the habitat where they live than almost any other species. The exceptions might be wild pigs, or (in Africa) elephants. But Quality Deer Habitat Management would mean to many people that it is habitat which is being managed, not wildlife populations, not hunters, not sex ratios. Although I like the term QDHM, it too has its drawbacks.

I'm content with Quality Deer Management, and preaching that it's a complex enterprise, but it's about habitat first.

Steve
When the Everyday Hunter isn't hunting, he's thinking about hunting, talking about hunting, dreaming about hunting, writing about hunting, or wishing he were hunting.
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JPH
 
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RE: QDM Splinter Group?

Postby JPH » Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:34 am

Everyday Hunter, did you read the OP? I ask because it, and the subsequent conversation address many of the points you have made.

I go back and forth between really enjoying this thread and regretting that I ever started it.

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