Corn: Blessing or Curse?

Discuss Quality Deer Management issues here!
schlupis
 
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RE: Corn: Blessing or Curse?

Postby schlupis » Tue Sep 22, 2009 6:08 pm

This debate will never be won on either side. Lets get back to hunting. I plant food plots and sometimes still use a bait pile, legal here in WI. It always makes me mad when I hear food plotters happy about the Govt taking away a means of hunting here (bait pile). You do know the next step is the taking away of food plots. There has already been mention of it. Question is will you still be happy, about the taking away of a legal method of hunting.

mightyfofaad
 
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RE: Corn: Blessing or Curse?

Postby mightyfofaad » Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:16 pm

ORIGINAL: Ben Sobieck

Corn is a popular deer feed, but is it really all it's cracked up to be? Click here to read this article from Matt Harper and decide for yourself.

Based on Ben's post & the article he refers to, I thought this was going to be a discussion on whether corn was "nutritionally" good for deer. Instead it seems to be whether or not it's good for a "bait."

Well, I've seen deer "cleaning up" at a harvested field. Since they seem to look like they're on crack while they're eating it, there is no doubt they love it; which usually means it's good for them. Unfortunately, I've never been able to get a corn farmer's permission to hunt his land. If he allows hunting; the "rights" have usually gone to someone local.

N.Y.S. doesn't allow baiting of any kind, whether it's a few corn rows growing out in the woods, or, corn dumped in a pile. In fact, in N.Y.S. you can no longer legally feed the deer "out of season."

So, is corn good for deer nutritionally ... I think yes. Is it a good way of attracting deer to a specific area ... from what I've seen, yes.

Corn good ... un-harvested 12+ point dear ... bad. [:D]

10 pointer
 
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RE: Corn: Blessing or Curse?

Postby 10 pointer » Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:09 pm

ORIGINAL: retch sweeny

Yes, except in a 2 or 3 acre food plot deer can be anywhere and enter anywhere, I doubt you can cover the whole field with archery equipment,



I was unaware that only bowhunters used bait plots. 1/2 and 3/4 acre food plots are more the norm that 3 acre plots. Regardless of size, your hunting over bait placed by a hunter to give an advantage. Some just don't want to admit it.

deer aren't forced to eat nose to nose mouth to mouth in a confined area,


If you take the time to study CWD, deer to deer transmission is not the issue. Nose to nose means very little compared to nose to earth. It's the urine and feces that build up in the soil when deer return to the same plot or pile. Read my first post to gain a better understanding of what is taking palce


Once hunting season is over the food plot will still be there.


Correct! Making plots worse from a disease transmission standpoint. The constant and repeated attracting and congregating of deer allow for more infectious material to be deposited over a longer period of time.


If plots worsen things from a disease standpoint, then should corn, soybean and clover fields be eliminated? These are, after all, community food sources for deer. As unrealistic as this sounds but based on your argument that CWD is essentially (and most efficiently) transmitted through the soil, whether a farmer's field of corn is only 3 acres or 300 acres .. there IS potential for CWD contaminants to be present in that farm plot, right?  Where does the charge that food plots and bait piles (I'm not a proponent of hunting over bait) find such substantial accusations and blame? Is it just because more people are doing it therefore more blame follows it? 
 
The philosophy of ethics has met with centuries of controversy over many, many things. Although I do not hunt over bait myself, judging another's ethics based on your own is somewhat unfair since there is no proof or world document stating as to "whose" ethics are the "right" ethics.  Just a thought shared (minus the CWD element) regarding your accusation that a hunter hunting over a bait pile is an unethical hunter. Based on the opinion you extend about hunters who use bait piles as an unfair advantage, then I guess this would make grunt calls, doe bleets, scent eliminators, camouflage, game cameras and attractants (Tinks, i.e.), guns and bows (i.e.) unfair advantages humans have over the animals they hunt.  Which means we are left to hiding behind a tree, lunging at the deer from behind and then wrestling it until we hopefully win. At this point, I would think a buck would win; after all, I certainly don't have any sharp protruding objects stemming from my head.  Where does this end?
 
By the way ... shouldn't we take worms and minnows off our fishin' hooks, not allow GPS's or FishFinders on the boats?  After all, this is an unfair advantage humans have over fish, etc.
 
I know these may be considered extreme or outrageous counterpoints but ... are they really that outrageous given the unfair advantage humans have over virtually any living creature on this planet? (Except maybe Great White Sharks .. if your in the water with no harpoon, for example!)
 
I'm sorry for the "humorous" side I threw in there but I am just trying to convey that some people could argue this stuff to death!  (no pun intended this time!)
 
I truly look forward to hearing more of your thoughts .. thanks!

KSbowhunter
 
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RE: Corn: Blessing or Curse?

Postby KSbowhunter » Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:41 pm

All the more reason to do our parts in controling the population and not letting overpopulation become the real problem.
 
I proudly take the life of any deer because it puts meat in the freezer and on the table; a trophy rack on a buck is a bonus. 
 
I could care less what another hunter or anti-hunter for that matter may think to be "ethical v. unethical"--fact of the matter is, a healthy grain and/or mineral fed animal whether we are talking beef, pork, lamb, deer, chicken.................etc. just tastes better.
 
So feed 'em the corn, the beans, the wheat, the clover, the peas, the turnips.  I will continue to attempt to supply the herd with nutrients, cover, water etc...I will continue to scout the deer, I will continue to decide where I hang a tree stand, blind AND where I plant a food plot or place a feeder.
 
All this controversy over deer hunting and qdma, when after it is all said and done we order a steak from the local eatery that was likely fed out in a feedlot![:@]

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AlleganBowhunter
 
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RE: Corn: Blessing or Curse?

Postby AlleganBowhunter » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:03 pm

I really don't have a dog in this chase.  I have hunted with bait a few times in my early days, but never had any more luck than without.  So I save my money and buy new arrows or gifts for the kiddos or what ever.  I still feel like making a few points. 

I will say up front I am impressed with everyone in this debate.  I have read my share of CWD and baiting vs plots threads (on other forums) and none have come close to being as civil as everyone has been here.   Thank you! This is why I enjoy coming here to learn from everyone.   My comments are largely against plots.  Its not personal, just my observations and opinions. Plus there just isn't much being debated about baiting that I can pick apart. I am not an expert on baiting, plots, CWD, wildlife disease transmission or anything else I am gonna talk about. Just my observations.

I don't get how based on the amount work involved (takes time to plan out, learn soils, plant, fertilize, etc) in a plot makes it different than baiting.  My personal opinion is we face a potential devastating disease to our deer herd.  I am willing to take every precaution to ensure the herd is healthy for my great grand kids and beyond.   It is really boiling down to semantics but I do not buy that because it takes someone more time and money to do a plot over a pile, that they are not the same.

It seems many have overlooked what Retch was quoting concerning transmission of diseases, specifically CWD.  If I understand correctly, current knowledge is that the transmission is worse through contaminated soil over contact between animals.  I think his point was a pile is something that is short lived and moves throughout the current season and future seasons.  Therefore meaning the contamination of the ground is less than a space that is available to the deer at the same location year round.  A plot is there year round thus giving the animals more time, in the same location (even spread out over 1/4 or 3 acres) to contaminate the soil.  One is a small area over a small period of time, the other is a long period of time over a ??? area.  I don't see how one can say a plot is better in this comparison.

And yes, a standing true Ag crop (one the farmer plants for profit or feeding his livestock) gives the same risks but A: the wildlife agencies do not control the Ag business (at least no where I know of); B: I don't think anyone expects to put farmers out of business or eliminate the food chain for our country. We need to minimize the risk. It will never be eliminated.

I can feel for the baiters who have lost "their" way of hunting. If someone came along and "gutted" the way I hunt, I would not be happy. I just hope I could understand the reasoning and move on with the best interest of the animals in mind.

I am on the fence about people who are putting in non native species for plots being stewards to the environment.  Doesn't add up in my mind.  There was a fella that was pushing to allow plots on public land.  Once you read into what he was saying it meant he wanted people to promote growth of plants that were native and beneficial to critters.  Not planting other seeds.  I'll be darned I can not remember his name right now.  Seems more along the lines of being a steward than introducing other plants.

As for deer farming and the commercialization of deer hunting... do not even get me started. I don't need to get all worked up... I am almost home from work and the sunrise is coming soon, and my pine tree blind is calling.

My point is that CWD and other diseases are real.  We need to do what we can, based on the knowledge we have, to reduce and/or eliminate (when possible) threats to our wild animals. As a whole we should look at the future when we do things, not just what we want or need in the short term. I think it was Nugent who said "We are merely caretakers of the wild for our children." Truer words have rarely been spoken. Maybe I am alone, but if I had to give up hunting for the rest of my life so future generations can experience what I love and live for, I would give it up in heart beat. No questions, no thoughts. I really care that dearly that my kids, grand kids and so on, have the opportunity to enjoy a sunrise or sunset in the deer woods, a camping trip, summer day fishing, shed hunting in the spring etc, etc. These are the roots of my love of the outdoors and I will do everything I can to ensure future generations enjoy them as well.

Hunt your heart out. Do so legally and you will have my full support in your endeavors. I wish everyone a successful season in the great outdoors. Stay safe and Happy Hunting! Oh and take a kid hunting!
Aim for the center of the target... the center of an aspirin is the same size as the center of a basketball. The difference is mental.

John in Michigan.

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ranwin33
 
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RE: Corn: Blessing or Curse?

Postby ranwin33 » Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:52 am

Part II of this series discusses hunting deer in standing corn fields.
 
I for one love standing corn fields, but this was not always the case.  We've got one that rotates in every two years all along our northern boundary.  In past years we hated it as the deer would get in there and that was pretty much it until the corn was harvested.
 
Then two years ago we figured out that by hunting the edges and woods just off the corn, deer can be taken.  But the other benefit is that deer now stay closer to our property rather than traveling through us to our neighbors to the south where 12 hunters on 170 acres wait for them.
 
Anytime the farmer to the north plants corn we consider it a blessing now.
“There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other that heat comes from the furnace.”
Aldo Leopold

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Mac
 
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RE: Corn: Blessing or Curse?

Postby Mac » Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:31 am

I keep my feeders going all year and I think it's great for the deer. We have acorns all over the lease but they always have corn as an alternitive. If the deer don't eat it the pigs will...
Quote: "Real men hunt with fly swatters!" - me... lol

USN_Sam1385
 
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RE: Corn: Blessing or Curse?

Postby USN_Sam1385 » Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:36 am

ORIGINAL: Mac

I keep my feeders going all year and I think it's great for the deer. We have acorns all over the lease but they always have corn as an alternitive. If the deer don't eat it the pigs will...


I don't think that a food plot, vs. a feeder that you run all year long is very much different. I completely agree with you Mac. I think the problem might lie in the guy that just dumps a pile of corn once or twice and calls it a day.

Honestly, it blows my mind that guys plant food plots and consider it not baiting, but putting corn there, spread out in a big area (like most feeders do) all year is. Then these same guys sit up on their high and mighty chair and act as though they are not baiting. It's the same thing. It just doesn't have roots.

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ranwin33
 
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RE: Corn: Blessing or Curse?

Postby ranwin33 » Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:37 am

Food plots do not have the same attractant qualities as corn and other food type baits; food plots more closely resemble what deer see in their natural environs, piles or corn don't.  That is why one is baiting and the other isn't.
“There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other that heat comes from the furnace.”
Aldo Leopold

mightyfofaad
 
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RE: Corn: Blessing or Curse?

Postby mightyfofaad » Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:06 pm

Let's see
USN_Sam1385 ... Honestly, it blows my mind that guys plant food plots and consider it not baiting, but putting corn there, spread out in a big area (like most feeders do) all year is. Then these same guys sit up on their high and mighty chair and act as though they are not baiting. It's the same thing. It just doesn't have roots.

VS.
ranwin33 ... Food plots do not have the same attractant qualities as corn and other food type baits; food plots more closely resemble what deer see in their natural environs, piles or corn don't. That is why one is baiting and the other isn't.


Sorry USN_Sam1385 ... I have to side with ranwin33.

You see, what ranwin33 is saying, is that a Food Plot is like your Mom setting the table & putting out a nice chicken dinner.

A feeder, or putting out corn, is like someone just picking up a chicken dinner at KFC & just dumping it on the table.

See the difference?
[8|]

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