Do You Think the QDM Bubble has Burst?

Discuss Quality Deer Management issues here!
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Goose
 
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RE: Do You Think the QDM Bubble has Burst?

Postby Goose » Fri Apr 02, 2010 2:57 pm

•Safe and ethical hunting.
•Adherence to wildlife and trespass laws.
•Adequate harvests of adult does.
•Restraint in harvesting young bucks.
•Hunter involvement in education and management.
•Cooperation with wildlife biologists and enforcement officers.
•Education of hunters and non-hunters toward a better understanding of wildlife management.
•Stewardship and appreciation of all wildlife.

^^This is from QDMA's web site under Who We Are.^^

I personally don't want any of these to fade from whitetail hunting. I may sound like a broken record and really don't care, so I will say it again. The basic principles of QDM are good. Its the hunters/property owners that go beyond the basic principles (some right, some wrong) and think that their way is the right way and try to jam that down everybody's throat without taking into consideration that particular individuals situation or circumstances.
The comments about new hunters not being able to shoot a small buck are false and are not in-line with the QDM'er who is properly practicing QDM. This is a perfect example of QDM getting a bad name because of somebody's individual made up rule or philosophy.

As far as the QDMA getting a bad name because the are out for profit or do not have proper management ideals, is in my opinion, another false statement. The QDMA has done many good things for all of nature and once again, its people who misuse the QDM logo or name to enforce their opinions on other people that are causing this backlash. We've all seen this happen on these forums time and time again.

The QDMA has educated countless people on deer and wildlife management practices. I owe them more than anybody for the little bit of knowledge I have gained. I personally hope that the true basic principles of QDM get stronger, not weaker.
Jake

Genesis 27:3 Take your bow and quiver full of arrows out into the open country, and hunt some wild game.....

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Everyday Hunter
 
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RE: Do You Think the QDM Bubble has Burst?

Postby Everyday Hunter » Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:03 pm

ORIGINAL: Goose

•Safe and ethical hunting.
•Adherence to wildlife and trespass laws.
•Adequate harvests of adult does.
•Restraint in harvesting young bucks.
•Hunter involvement in education and management.
•Cooperation with wildlife biologists and enforcement officers.
•Education of hunters and non-hunters toward a better understanding of wildlife management.
•Stewardship and appreciation of all wildlife.

^^This is from QDMA's web site under Who We Are.^^

Come on, Jake! What's the matter with you? Can't you see how far overboard those principles are? You're nothing but an elitist!

April Fool! (Oh, that was yesterday? Never mind -- I'm usually a day late, and a dollar short!) [:D]

Steve
When the Everyday Hunter isn't hunting, he's thinking about hunting, talking about hunting, dreaming about hunting, writing about hunting, or wishing he were hunting.
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Stickman
 
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RE: Do You Think the QDM Bubble has Burst?

Postby Stickman » Fri Apr 02, 2010 5:28 pm

I still believe in it as I have done for the past 6 years. I will continue to plant the best food plots I can and harvest only older class bucks and manage doe herds. But I only own 35 acres so I can only hope my neighbors are doing the same. I will not give up even if they are not. I get more enjoyment out of planting, growing and preparing for deer season and the actual hunting, that is what it is all about for me.
If you can find it you can kill it.

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Everyday Hunter
 
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RE: Do You Think the QDM Bubble has Burst?

Postby Everyday Hunter » Fri Apr 02, 2010 11:29 pm

ORIGINAL: Stickman

I still believe in it as I have done for the past 6 years. I will continue to plant the best food plots I can and harvest only older class bucks and manage doe herds. But I only own 35 acres so I can only hope my neighbors are doing the same. I will not give up even if they are not. I get more enjoyment out of planting, growing and preparing for deer season and the actual hunting, that is what it is all about for me.

You're right on. Your efforts should result in the deer using your property more. Give them a sanctuary area, and well-designed food plots. You may be able to offer them a bedding area in winter that will enable you to find more antlers. You can use trail camera to help determine how and when the deer use your property. But you have very little control over the age-class and gender ratio of the deer that use your property if neighbors shoot young deer and fail to shoot does. 

QDM for you means doing what you can do for the benefit of the deer and your enjoyment of them.

Steve
When the Everyday Hunter isn't hunting, he's thinking about hunting, talking about hunting, dreaming about hunting, writing about hunting, or wishing he were hunting.
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msbadger
 
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RE: Do You Think the QDM Bubble has Burst?

Postby msbadger » Sat Apr 03, 2010 1:50 am

 So here I go again just stepping in it....The doe shooting is what I see as the major problem with QDM....ppl just don't get the correct amount of information in a given area...to correctly gauge the number of doe to shoot or the right age class...next thing you know matriarchs are taken out...or whole family groups...which is far worse than taking of a 6pt or basket 8pt...(example)
On clustered small parcels where ppl are shooting up the doe herd  and you have no way of gauging the #'s taken...it would only take a season or two to mess you up[... and in the north...couple that with a bad winter ...Thats where I see QDM goes over board....I'll stick to QLM

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Woods Walker
 
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RE: Do You Think the QDM Bubble has Burst?

Postby Woods Walker » Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:27 am

This is just my opinion, and I'll be the first to admit that I am by no means an expert on QDM. I'm just basing this on what I've seen deer hunting for 45 years in New Jersey (WAAAY before they let you shoot does), Wyoming, and Illinois, and having studied Range Management and having worded for the old Soil Conservation Service as a Range Conservationist Land Manager.

If you are doing QDM to manage your LAND as the primary goal, with a healthy deer herd (overall deer health/balanced sex ratios) as a BYPRODUCT, then you are on the right track. And by managing your ground, I DON'T mean making it a deer farm, with all kinds of exotic plantings and the like. I'm refering to managing the NATIVE species that you have, with maybe supplemental enhancements of the NATIVE species, so that all the wildlife in the area benefits.

Doing it because you want "YOUR" deer to have a specific numerical antler score is just flat wrong. I mean if that's what you want, then go to a state that permits deer farming, buy some ground, fence it, feed them, and bang away. The you don't have to bad mouth folks who shot one of YOUR deer before YOU deemed it was big enough to be killed, or "HARVESTED", as you will.
Hunt Hard,

Kill Swiftly,

Waste Nothing,

Offer No Apologies.....

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swamp ghost
 
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RE: Do You Think the QDM Bubble has Burst?

Postby swamp ghost » Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:43 am

1) Unrealistic Goals

As with anything, your expected results always falls short. However, setting your goals high is a great thing.

2) Problems With Neighbors

This is not a QDM specific problem by any means.

3) The Wrong Focus

Even if guys get into QDM to kill "biggerracked" bucks, it gets them to think about QDM, improving thier property, passing on young bucks and shooting doe's, that's a great thing.

4) Money Matters

Passing on young bucks and shootng more does, doesn't cost a dime. Most private land habitat improvements are inexpensive, hinge/clear cutting are some of the cost effective improvements anyone can do. Tractors, implements and expansive food plots are simply the gravy on top of your QDM mash potatoes.

5) The Burnout Curve

Here in MI, QDM cooperatives are exploding. Most MI hunters hunt private land and are tired of the deer management status quo.

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Everyday Hunter
 
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RE: Do You Think the QDM Bubble has Burst?

Postby Everyday Hunter » Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:46 am

ORIGINAL: msbadger

...The doe shooting is what I see as the major problem with QDM....ppl just don't get the correct amount of information in a given area...to correctly gauge the number of doe to shoot or the right age class...

You make a point I can't argue with. I'm no expert in the field of deer management, but I'm with you -- I don't understand those who recommend harvesting mature does. It seems to me that the matriarchs play a key role in the social structure of a deer herd, so we keep them around would be a good thing.

WW: You do understand, I'm sure, that back in the days when harvesting does was prohibited or severely restricted, the reason was to continue building up the herd. Most states succeeded very well at that.
ORIGINAL: Woods Walker

...If you are doing QDM to manage your LAND as the primary goal, with a healthy deer herd (overall deer health/balanced sex ratios) as a BYPRODUCT, then you are on the right track. And by managing your ground, I DON'T mean making it a deer farm, with all kinds of exotic plantings and the like. I'm refering to managing the NATIVE species that you have, with maybe supplemental enhancements of the NATIVE species, so that all the wildlife in the area benefits.


In that description, I don't see anything that a QDM proponent would object to. Some QDM proponents would recommend more, but in terms of investment that's the way to get the most bang for your $ on most small properties. Do more, and you quickly reach a point of diminishing returns -- in other words, wasted money and limited results.

Steve
When the Everyday Hunter isn't hunting, he's thinking about hunting, talking about hunting, dreaming about hunting, writing about hunting, or wishing he were hunting.
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Laturkeyhtr
 
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RE: Do You Think the QDM Bubble has Burst?

Postby Laturkeyhtr » Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:19 am

Great topic!

First I will say that my thoughts are more in line with JPH and Goose, but there are many valid comments.

I have been involved with QDM and QDMA for nearly 20 years now. I think the bubble is still growing. The concept of qdm had been one of the best things or the future of our sport. It has made hunters more aware of deer management and you can't say that this is a bad thing. Hunters have learned a great deal from the organization and it stands to reason that businesses will look upon qdm as a means to provide goods and services to the hunting industry. That is the business way.

As for QDMA being for profit, you must remember they are considered a non-profit organization. They do however have to produce funds to sustain the organization.

I am proud to promote the concept of qdm and QDMA.

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Woods Walker
 
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RE: Do You Think the QDM Bubble has Burst?

Postby Woods Walker » Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:34 am

WW: You do understand, I'm sure, that back in the days when harvesting does was prohibited or severely restricted, the reason was to continue building up the herd. Most states succeeded very well at that.


Steve: Back in those days, there were plenty of deer, or at last for the amount and kind of habitat we had. The problem with the non-shooting of does back then, was that if you saw or killed a forkhorn that was a TROPHY deer. A deer with an actual RACK was considered a rarity, and you made the newspapers it. Now I understand that in the NE at that time, they were rebounding from the logging and unregulated harvests of the first half of the 1900's.

Now flash forward to Illinois. Illinois didn't even HAVE a modern deer season until 1960 I believe. But when they did begin a season they alwasy killed ALL sexes of deer. Does were not protected, and when I first started to hunt Illinois in 1979, I was amazed at the numeber of racked bucks I saw in the woods AND killed by others. There were not the numbers of deer that we have here now, but the sex ratio was in line, and seeing bucks that got old enough to grow a rack was the norm and not the exception.

The concept of "protect the breeders" is valid when you are starting from zero, but a lot of those NE states back then never got past that concept either, and forkhorn "trophys" were the result. Many times while hunting in New Jersey back then I might see 30 or 40 deer in the week long firearm season, and NEVER see a legal (3" antler) buck. Illinois never fell into that error, and the great deer herd we have now is a result of that.

And I might mention that back in the 70's we DID shoot the first deer we saw firearm hunting in Illinois, because it may very well be the only deer we had a shot at. But in spite of all that, we still had darn near a 50/50 chance that that one deer would be a buck.
Hunt Hard,

Kill Swiftly,

Waste Nothing,

Offer No Apologies.....

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