Do You Think the QDM Bubble has Burst?

[JPH]

Fair enough, Steve. Its a tough question to answer.

My answer (for what little its worth) is that while proper QDM does equate to conservation, it is only one conservation option.

[Goose]

I'll agree with you JPH, as you stated, QDM is just one facet of conservation.

[Wild Bill]

 IMHO, let it go. Good riddance. Has been nothing but devisive to the hunting community.

[ShoulderNuke!]

Yes plain and simple .I think most hunters who say they practice QDM actually know little about true QDM and its real earliest years message . They are in fact Trying to no real avail or end to practice TDM "trophy deer management" . And most who do this fail miserably and over a few or several seasons abandon it for traditional satisfaction style hunting .

JMHO of 35 years deer hunting for the most part this will slip away to just small pockets of practitioners and it just might save the sport of deer hunting if it does.

[Woods Walker]

I think that one of the facets of what many consider to be QDM is the passing up of legal deer.

Now this may be fine for the person who has his/her own ground (whether it be owned or leased), and can hunt a lot. But consider the hunter who may only get out less than a half dozen times a year.Or in a state like Illinois, where if you are soley a firearm deer hunter, and can only hunt the first half of the split season (3 days), you can't be too picky. And in this economy, there are MANY of us who fall into this group unfortunately.

There are a lot of hunters who just want to shoot a deer that have very limited time to hunt. Expecting them to pass up what may very well be the only legal deer they will see is unreasonable. Berating them in the name of antler worship is not only counter- productive, but self defeating for the positive aspects of QDM. Not all QDM practicioners are are like this, and that's good. But the ones that are, give it a black eye.

[Everyday Hunter]

I think I agree with everything you've said in this post, WW. But -- in a place like here in Pennsylvania many people seem to equate the 4-point rule with "antler worship," when really it's just an attempt to let as many deer as possible live beyond their first season with headbones.

In other words, in a state like PA one hunter's "legal deer" is another hunter's concept of "antler worship."

Steve

[Woods Walker]

But in Pennsy the 4 point rule is the LAW now, right? If so, then it's no longer a legal deer, so that's a little different situation than I mentioned. I understand that many people in Pennsy DO NOT like that law, but that's another issue.

BTW.....In a state like Pennsy, who was one of the eastern states that fell into that old "protect the does" school of management for many years, racked bucks were hard to come by, and I AGREE with them trying to get a better age structure. I've lived in a state where the doe/buck ratio was so skewed that there may have been one legal buck for every 10+ does.

Please understand too, that I live and hunt in Illinois, where the buck/doe ratio is darn close to 50/50. That doesn't mean that you see herds of deer everytime you go out, in fact, in many areas of this state, the deer are pretty well spread out so deer are everywhere, but they are not concentrated. Some days you don't see any at all. We also have a very healthy buck herd, and 6 and even 8 point racks are not uncommon on 1.5 year old deer. We also have excellent genetics.

There are many different conceptions of "antler worship" also, but for me, it means someone who's obsessed with only shooting a buck who's rack is bigger than any he's ever killed, and EVERYONE ELSE must follow those same guidelines. I think the statement that bugs me the most, is.....

"If you have to shoot a deer, and/or if meat is your primary goal, then you should just shoot does then"...which translates into, "Don't go shooting MY bucks until "I" have deemed them big enough to shoot", which makes me want to get as many legal tags I can get and fill them with 1.5 year old bucks and take photos of me proudly posed with them!

And just for the record, I pass on deer every season for one reason or another, age being one of the reasons. But that's MY decision and no one else's. I would no soooner tell someone what deer they should or shouldn't kill as I would tell them what to eat or drink or what church to go to.

[brchestnuts@msn.com]

There are many degrees, levels or intensities of QDM.  Just like there are pro athletes vs. weekend warriors.  The fall of the Global ecomnomy has forcibly burst some of these levels.  As real estate being purchased just for hunting.  Those with the cash to spend, have that cash because they always look for a future net gain on any of their investments, including hunting land.  It will be a loooong time for one to see a capital gain on any land bought now.  Because, of our national debt and the future failure of the ponzi scheme social security people in the future will have LESS money than now to buy land.  Now, a smart person might buy land now, dig a well, build a small house, etc., and start a mini-farm.  As in the great depression it ws just such people who weathered it the best.  Instead of Deer-only QDM I'm doing human+deer synergistic things.  As, planting two orchards.  Fruit trees and chestnut trees [they produce nuts in 7 years, that turkey also like].  Planting a crop rotation veg. garden with always having a section in clover, and my 3 past food plots now being managed for human+deer, to be able to be quickly turned into general crop rotation fields [as sections in green manure, and barter some of my corn for a friends chickens & eggs].  Less $$ going to deer plot seed.  Also, $$ being spent on up-grading the cabin & outbuilding.  To make them more liveable then as the man-cave that they are.  I still maintain my QDM hunting ethics.

[stillhunter]

I agree with your views on Antler Worship W.W. some great comments.

I think Antler Worhsip is by far the biggest problem facing the sport of deer hunting today. QDM for true conservation / habitat improvement is probably practiced by a minority of those claiming they are practicing QDM. I admire those who are quietly doing it for conservation without an Antler motivation. The industry has grown up around the antler motivated majority, not the minority who truly practice for conservation reasons alone.

This is where I think the bubble burst has started to take place and will continue. The antler obsession crowd is losing interest and dropping out because the antlers are not materializing like they thought they would / or were promised they would. They will stop at nothing to try and have mandatory AR's passed to try to get their false promise of Antlers. This is one of their last hopes. Pushing it on everyone for their selfish gain. The view that AR's need to become the law for everyone is a by product of Antler Worship / Trophy hunting and not conservation. Here in NY this agenda is continuing to be advanced in a new bill. This will only cause further damage to the sport if it passes. So far the DEC has fortunately been able to prevent this from happening.

Stillhunter

[buckhunter21]

All great posts going on here.  One thing that I would like to add though, I have heard that ok, maybe some guys don't have a ton of time to hunt and so let them shoot the first legal deer that they see.  That's all fine and good, and I've already stood by the premise that a guy or gal can take whatever animals that make them happy as long as it's legal.  Myself, I don't need to take a deer to make myself happy or to 'feed the family.'  I manage our two properties the best I can to produce a quality deer herd (and if larger bucks become of that, the better) and take enjoyment in just seeing deer.  I don't need to shoot a buck every year...Or even now where we are seeing less and less deer in WI, I pass up on the does as well.  JMO!