First Idaho Wolves Killed

[Gafrage]

I am soooooooooo glad I did not see this post when it started.

[mightyfofaad]

Okay folks, you can stop punching ... Ole's post #31 was a good bucket of cold water in the face ... you (all) were right & I was wrong ... I let an emotional attachment to a favorite predator totally dislodge my common sense.

I've driven back from the Adirondack mountains often enough with a deer or bear strapped to my hood (required by New York State law) & passed enough cars with horrified children or women, to realized my ... "what I kill is okay, but don't kill what I like" ... to be the height of hypocrisy.

P.S. to Ole: The Society for the Preservation of the Great Northeastern Spotted Barking Woodchuck has already written a scathing letter to me! [;)]

[wack]

mightyfo, you're all right, I hope you are not offended. This is a topic that can quickly heat up but everyone so far seems to be keeping this discussion a learning experience among friends. We can compare notes and keep open minds we can all benefit.

 We are all on the same team and we need to recognize what the anti hunters are trying to do. In our area the Humane Society of the United States and the Center For Biological Diversity among other anti hunting groups are the main legal force behind our wolf population being put back under Federal protection. There goal is to legally stop every kind of hunting. On the wolf front they believe wolves should spread throughout the USA, to return to every inch of ground they roamed 200+ years ago. A noble thought, except would you bring a dog home without ANY food? Would you bring a Great Dane to a 3rd floor city apartment? No, it's not the proper habitat for that animal.

 Are these organizations protecting the wolves doing anything to feed the wolves, prepare habitat for the wolves or any species? No. There goal isn't to save the wolves, it's to end hunting. In my home state the wolf is being used as a biological weapon that is effectively killing off our deer herd at an alarming pace. Our elk program is 7 years behind schedule, we have only about 150 elk. If the elk program was on schedule, we could support a larger black bear and wolf population. RMEF has spent over $5 million in this state restoring habitat and setting hunting land aside, the save the wolves people have not done anything for habitat all they are doing is making hunting organizations like RMEF waist more money on legal fees that could be spent on securing the wolves future and improving the natural food chain.

We are at a cross road right now. If we don't manage our deer, bears and wolves properly and get our elk program back on track we risk loosing everything. In the other dirrection we secure the future of deer hunting and bear hunting and add wolf and elk hunting to the near future. For northern WI this could mean continued recession for years to come, or a solid growing hunting and tourist economy that could help replace our loses from a declining paper industry. There is so much more at stake here than meets the eye. Way too much at stake. Wildlife management needs to be in the hands on individual states, not in the federal government's hands. At this point in Wisconsin the federal endangered species act is doing much more harm than good.        

[mightyfofaad]

Reply to wack post #43

Well you certainly make a very comprehensive, and logical argument for state vs federal regulation of local wildlife. As far as I'm concerned, the feds ought to stick to maintaining an army & building interstate highways ... & nothing else. Too often some pinhead in D.C. sitting behind a desk interferes with the local people who know best.

On the other hand ... how much can he eat? (just kidding)[:D]

[JeffQ]

I have been hunting northern Wisconsin for over 30 years and believe the excessive baiting going on is a far greater problem than the wolf population but that is probably another topic on it's own. There seems to be plenty of deer sign in the woods but they no longer have to move to obtain food. Hence, people lay blame to the wolf as diminishing the herd. Years ago you would seldom see bait for sale. Now every gas station, store, etc. has corn, apples, etc. piled sky high. Before culling the wolf population we should first eliminate the deer control programs such as the T zone hunts, doe tags, etc. The wolf is much better at this since they remove the less fit deer first.

[mightyfofaad]

ORIGINAL: JeffQ

[b]I have been hunting northern Wisconsin for over 30 years and believe the excessive baiting going on is a far greater problem than the wolf population but that is probably another topic on it's own. There seems to be plenty of deer sign in the woods but they no longer have to move to obtain food. Hence, people lay blame to the wolf as diminishing the herd. Years ago you would seldom see bait for sale. Now every gas station, store, etc. has corn, apples, etc. piled sky high. Before culling the wolf population we should first eliminate the deer control programs such as the T zone hunts, doe tags, etc. The wolf is much better at this since they remove the less fit deer first.

[neat_guy74]

Just came across this thread and found it interesting as to what others think about this conundrum.  As a resident of north central Idaho who just returned from a two week elk camp, I thought I would sign up and make a few comments about what I read here.

For starters, there are many, many people here who DO hunt for their food.  A large majority of the people around here have survived for many decades in the mining and foresting industries.  The later of the two are greater conservationists than most of the eco-freaks and government employees who are imposing the regulations ruining it by trying to save it.  Mining died out many years ago and forestry/logging has been dieing off sharply over the last 20 years and is at a virtual standstill right now due to the same eco-freaks who are saving the wolves for the wrong reasons and the housing market crash causing a lack of demand for lumber.

I personally do have a wolf tag.  The chances of me using it are slim to none because wolves are extremely stealthy in the woods and I doubt I'll see one without a fresh snow to be able to track them.  I am all for the management of wolves, and in my opinion, managed hunting of them alone will not be sufficient to properly manage them in our area.  All wolf kills are required to be reported to fish and game within 24 hours and the quota where I elk hunt is 18 wolves to be taken.  After 4 weeks of the wolf season opening, only 2 have been reported.  I am sure there are those who don't report their kill, but this is a low percentage and is representative of most of the hunting areas in north central Idaho.  According to the population projections in the reintroduction plan, there should be 250-300 wolves in our areas.  Fish and Game is even astounded that that number (according to their data) is tripled with 800-900 wolves that they have accounted for.

What have I personally seen?  I have seen the elk hunting go from superb a few years ago with over 30% of elk taken being 6 point bulls to seeing only 3 cows and 1 5point this year.  I have seen numerous wolf kills where an elk/deer have been taken down and only 2-3 pounds of meat being eaten out of its butt with the rest going to waste until a cougar or bear finds it.  They leave a lot of waste!  I have seen tracks crossing a road spaced out a couple hundred yards apart.  This is how they hunt, they cut a swath about 1/4 mile wide and can cover 30-50 miles in a day taking down about anything they come across.  One can see how destructive they can be.  They are the top of the food chain in the wild and get very little competition from their nearest competitor, the cougar.  There is no reason for them not to be able to proliferate beyond expectations.

My problem with the whole deal is this...  The wolves being reintroduced in our area are not the species that were at one time native here.  The wolves reintroduced are much larger, faster and more aggressive towards the large game.  Recreational hunting and the services which go along with it is a large part of our economy and I strongly believe that if correct management is not implemented, millions of dollars to our local economies and government agencies will be lost from the outdoorsmen who come here to hunt in our fabulous area.  What does this mean?  It means even more out of work folks who need to hunt for their food and the only animals left will be the wolves!  I wonder how it tastes...

[mightyfofaad]

ORIGINAL: neat_guy74

I personally do have a wolf tag.  The chances of me using it are slim to none because wolves are extremely stealthy in the woods and I doubt I'll see one ...

I have seen numerous wolf kills where an elk/deer have been taken down and only 2-3 pounds of meat being eaten out of its butt with the rest going to waste until a cougar or bear finds it.  They leave a lot of waste ... 

I have seen tracks crossing a road spaced out a couple hundred yards apart.  This is how they hunt, they cut a swath about 1/4 mile wide and can cover 30-50 miles in a day taking down about anything they come across ...

The wolves being reintroduced in our area are not the species that were at one time native here.  The wolves reintroduced are much larger, faster and more aggressive towards the large game. 

Wow ... it seems as if you've discovered some super mutant strain of wolf that kills only to snack and scourge the landscape.

You really ought to report this to National Geographic ... they live to investigate aberrant animal behavior such as this. Seriously, you may have discovered some new dangerous genetic mutation.

I tend to be a Wolf advocate, but, I'm certainly not in favor of packs of wolves like this cutting a 50 mile swath thru the country side killing everything in their path. Someone must look into this. These wolves make all wolves look bad. [:o]

[Old Guy]

First of all wolf eve's typically kill eat what they need and then go round up the pack. They come back as a pack and will stay in the area till the kill is gone. Are you sure this is not what is happening?

T-zone and baiting, I agree are part of it.

Man has been the wolfs predator for more than 10,000 years, not to hunt them in some areas is against natural law.

[Old Guy]

Here's a three links about the Wi. wolf



http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/59661537.html

http://wiatri.net/website/AtriDemo/viewer.htm

http://dnr.wi.gov/org/land/er/mammals/w ... depred.htm