Scent Loc Found Guilty Of False Advertising

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shaman
 
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RE: Scent Loc Found Guilty Of False Advertising

Postby shaman » Mon May 24, 2010 12:24 am

Let's step back here for a second.  Let's assume two things:
1)  Scent-Lok really doesn't work--not the way ALS claims
2)  The guys who buy the stuff aren't all deluded.

Go back and read what I was saying back in 2007 on this:

http://blackholecoffeehouse.blogspot.co ... fraud.html

My contention is that the reason why folks think the charcoal suits work is that their awareness of scent goes up.  Anyone who spends that much money on goofy suit really wants to commit to reducing their scent.  They try harder, and it pays off. I am probably not the first guy to say the best thing about Scent Lok is the little instruction card.  Follow those instructions, and you will probably see more deer-- regardless of whether you are wearing the suit or not.

I solved my scent problem over 25 years ago after I first became aware of scent.  It took me a couple of seasons to understand that wheezy noise I was hearing in the woods was coming from deer. They were snorting at me from down wind.  I did a little reading and found out they had incredibly good noses.  I ditched the wool pants that stank of moth balls.  I started washing myself before I went out to hunt. I started washing my clothes in baking soda. The problem cleared up. By the time Scent Lok came around in the late-80's I could not figure out what the whoo-haw was all about.
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antlerjockey
 
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RE: Scent Loc Found Guilty Of False Advertising

Postby antlerjockey » Wed May 26, 2010 11:29 am

There is a huge discrepency here, and I challenge you to check out the articles on deerfear.com before you make any decisions regarding these products.
[:@]

Edit by Dan Schmidt: I initially took out Dave's live link because it included name-calling and innuendo, but I have placed it back in his above post to allow people view the link and draw their own conclusions.

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Dan Schmidt
 
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RE: Scent Loc Found Guilty Of False Advertising

Postby Dan Schmidt » Wed May 26, 2010 12:41 pm

Dear Dave (Antler Jockey),

Thank you for visiting our site. I do encourage you to post your comments and critiques here. This is an open forum.
Daniel E. Schmidt, Editor, Deer & Deer Hunting

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Marc Anthony
 
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RE: Scent Loc Found Guilty Of False Advertising

Postby Marc Anthony » Wed May 26, 2010 2:35 pm

There are some interesting points being made with regard to this article, so I felt moved enough to make a few points of my own here.

First and foremost, in my opinion there is nothing better made available to the hunter than activated carbon for scent control. Period! Given the assumption that any hunter who perseveres enough and is anal about scent control will bathe and eliminate as much scent as possible prior to using activated carbon. Carbon is the de facto leader in stopping human scent as it regenerates on the body and in the field. Whether or not the Scent-Lok works as advertised, is up for you to decide.

ANY product that uses activated carbon will at some point excel in removing human scent. I have used enough activated carbon in my lifetime that I can tell you I know of no better product a whitetail hunter can use to control scent. I have used carbon years before it was ever mentioned publically with great results. I can also verify that I have been up close and personal with scores of whitetail, some in the vicinity of only 10 yards with no detection. One quick way to prove activated carbon's ability to remove scent is to do what I've done when I've explained its effectiveness to the general public. I take fox, raccoon or estrus doe urine and pour a large amount onto a flat surface area. (I've even seen this done on someone's hand ). Once the fluid is poured, sprinkle activated carbon right on the urine and in a second or two, the scent is gone...and I mean gone! I know of nothing stronger, that is safe for humans, that is more effective than activated carbon.

So it boils down to its use. If part of your body is prepared for scent control and the other part is not, you've failed. I have said this many times in the past but proper bagging of your hunting clothes is a must prior to the hunt! Bathing is a must, prior to the hunt. Everything is a must prior to the hunt! Scent control is 80% of your hunt, especially if you're a bow hunter or a ground hunter. Everything has a use and can be misused, so it's not my intention to dissect the Scent-Lok suit but rather to mention that its primary ingredient, activated carbon, is a real winner.

One other point I must mention is that activated carbon does have a useful life span that varies with heat, humidity and other chemicals. A person should be educated with any product before using them to achieve positive results.
"A fool learns from his own mistake but a wiseman learns from a fool's mistake "

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Woods Walker
 
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RE: Scent Loc Found Guilty Of False Advertising

Postby Woods Walker » Wed May 26, 2010 3:09 pm

Who's Dave?
Hunt Hard,

Kill Swiftly,

Waste Nothing,

Offer No Apologies.....

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Woods Walker
 
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RE: Scent Loc Found Guilty Of False Advertising

Postby Woods Walker » Wed May 26, 2010 3:24 pm

Marc: The issue is not whether activated carbon works or not. The issue is with the claims that Scent-Lock made in that regard.

It's really pretty simple. If I sell you a pair of boots or a coat that I claim is waterPROOF, then it damn sure better be waterproof, and not waterRESISTANT. That is a very simplified version of what's gone on here. If it really worked as well as they claim, then you shouldn't have to do any scent-control with your body, but you do. They even tell you that.

And just for the record, I too have been "kissing close" to many deer and have remained undetected, and I've never used a stitch of activated carbon clothing. You really have no proof that those up close and personal encounters were because of the carbon clothing until you could recreate the same scenario with the same animals while you were NOT wearing the carbon clothing. Anything less and it's really just your perception and nothing more. Just like mine is a perception of NOT using it and having similar encounters like you have. In fact, it's probably more the ghillie suit than anything else! [;)]
Hunt Hard,

Kill Swiftly,

Waste Nothing,

Offer No Apologies.....

>>>--------------------------------->
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Marc Anthony
 
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RE: Scent Loc Found Guilty Of False Advertising

Postby Marc Anthony » Wed May 26, 2010 4:13 pm

ORIGINAL: Woods Walker

Marc: The issue is not whether activated carbon works or not. The issue is with the claims that Scent-Lock made in that regard.

It's really pretty simple. If I sell you a pair of boots or a coat that I claim is waterPROOF, then it damn sure better be waterproof, and not waterRESISTANT. That is a very simplified version of what's gone on here. If it really worked as well as they claim, then you shouldn't have to do any scent-control with your body, but you do. They even tell you that.

And just for the record, I too have been "kissing close" to many deer and have remained undetected, and I've never used a stitch of activated carbon clothing. You really have no proof that those up close and personal encounters were because of the carbon clothing until you could recreate the same scenario with the same animals while you were NOT wearing the carbon clothing. Anything less and it's really just your perception and nothing more. Just like mine is a perception of NOT using it and having similar encounters like you have. In fact, it's probably more the ghillie suit than anything else! [;)]



WW, I think you missed my point and it's partially my fault because I didn't come out and say what I really meant. I was trying to be civil. Nevertheless, for the record I have never used a Scent Loc piece of clothing ever! I was never a fan of it either. I didn't buy it, wear it or believe in it. When I said I was "up close and personal" notice where I said "activated carbon" and not Scent Loc. FYI, you can buy a pound of the stuff for pennies. I simply wash my clothes in it and sprinkle it around my areas of still hunting. One of the points I was also making is the fact there is no "one solution" for all. If you buy something, know it! If you don't use it correctly, shame on you. If it's misrepresented, shame on them. Bottom line: Take control of the situation yourself!

As far as proof goes, yes, I have many hours in the woods as proof, testing products all day long for some of the biggest manufacturers of hunting equipment in the world. When I find something (as I did today) that doesn't work as advertised, that manufacturer gets to see my dark side..and "it ain't pretty". LOL. When a truly innovative product comes out and works, I am as enthusiastic as ever for them and the hunting community. One example was the "Growl call". I called them on that as I found it to be junk. I scolded them for trying to pawn that junk off to our youthful hunters and anyone else who fell victim to that call. I think I've scared more deer with that thing than I have with bad scent :-) I have many more examples but I don't want to be known as the "critic" but rather an outdoorsman. I keep that info professional-like and work with the manufacturers for solutions.

I have tested activated carbon to the extreme. I have worked with it in all types of scenarios and there is a definite difference when using it as opposed to not using it. You can compare it to using a Ghillie suit, to not wearing one and you of all people can understand that comparison more than the average stand hunter.
"A fool learns from his own mistake but a wiseman learns from a fool's mistake "

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Woods Walker
 
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RE: Scent Loc Found Guilty Of False Advertising

Postby Woods Walker » Wed May 26, 2010 5:11 pm

I hear you Marc, and I'm not saying that your observations are necessarily wrong. They most likely aren't. But it's a bit easier to test an item that involves vision than scent. If you wear a garment or a camo pattern and you sit in the same spot and don't move and 3 deer come out at different times and immediately spot you then I'd say it's a pretty sure bet that they can not only see you, but also identify what you are.

I once had a buck walk 10 yards from me and I was DIRECTLY up wind from him. I was sitting on top of a round bale that was about 6'high that was leaning on a tree on a woods edge. My scent was blowing right to him, and never detected me, which puzzles me to this day, as even though I do practice a scent control regiment, I would never expect it to be that good at such close range. What happened? Who really knows. But because I can't see my scent, I can only guess that it could have been the humidity, or maybe the ground current, or maybe the barometric pressure conditions at that moment LIFTED my scent and it went above him, or maybe he was just plain stupid, and I should have shot him and taken his dumb *** out of the gene pool! Point is, there's no way to know. A half hour later, and that same deer would maybe have turned himself inside out the nano-second he hit my scent stream at that close a range.

As a sidenote, a month later during gun season, I was in that same treeline in my ghillie, sitting on the ground, when a doe came into the treeline with her fawn at about 50 yards, and not only did she look straight at me, but she IDENTIFIED ME AS DANGER! That's the one and only time that's ever happened to me under those conditions with the ghille. I was in the shadows, and I was NOT moving. A year before I killed a 145" at 35 yards almost in that same spot with the gun and he walked right by me before I let him get far out enough so I could make my move. It also made me think yet again that sometimes DOES can be much harder to kill than bucks, especially if the bucks are looking for ladies. The same breeding urge that causes men to get divorced, lose all their money and jobs is also the downfall of many a "wise" old buck.
Hunt Hard,

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Waste Nothing,

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Marc Anthony
 
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RE: Scent Loc Found Guilty Of False Advertising

Postby Marc Anthony » Wed May 26, 2010 5:41 pm

One thing to consider WW is that deer most likely always wind you when you give them the opportunity but they don't always react! Deer that live around smaller farms or that have wind currents blowing into their faces most of the time, do get used to human scent. Does do react more aggressively, especially with fawns. Rutting bucks are so stupid, who knows what's going through their minds...well, we really do know I guess! Like you said, it's the downfall of mankind, just ask Bill Clinton, Tiger Woods or even Jesse James. Keep your pants on boys or you'll lose it all!

So how do you tell if you are winded or not? A panicked deer is one way for sure but body language is the best. When testing scent at the molecular level, a deer's nose is so sensitive even the slightest change is evident. This is how they survive. Body language includes nose twitching, flehmen, tail posture, eye shape and type of walk. How do you know or compare? We use known irritants to see how deer react. Once we know how they react to a know irritant, we compare that to a human scent reaction, which by the way, are the same. For comparison, we also use know scents that are pleasurable to deer, so we can record how they react to scents they like. This is one way we know the activated carbon works for human scent. Their reactions are benign.

I've always believed does are hard to kill. I think they can be harder to kill but not harder to hunt. Mature bucks are harder to hunt IMO. Once found, killing them is not that hard. Does on the other hand, are more abundant but always on alert because they are mostly in the open, so their senses are keen. I have much respect for a mature doe!
"A fool learns from his own mistake but a wiseman learns from a fool's mistake "

antlerjockey
 
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RE: Scent Loc Found Guilty Of False Advertising

Postby antlerjockey » Thu May 27, 2010 5:18 am

Dan, I have always had the utmost respect for your magazine, and have been a subscriber since stump sitters was the base of the mag. While I do get fired up, I prove facts for the reasons I use the words I use. Innuendo, not sure I agree, but the basis of my arguement if for you to decide, given the information that is correct and factual.

I voice the opinion of many people, hence 10,000 distinct hits a month. I say things people are afraid to say, because they think there is only one way to make it in this business, and that's to join forces with the hype. If it pays your bills, and supports your family, more power to you. Trust me, I know several people in the industry that have been very successful doing so, and I am proud of them, however they do not share my views.

I appreciate your professionalism, however I do challenge you as a person to do your own investigation of the situation, and I am sure you may or will come to a different conclusion. Putting a Scent-Lok pro-staff member's article up to give hunters false information, as well as the title is downright offensive, I believe the name calling goes both ways.

Your decision, just be informed, not opinionated. There is a reason the government will go after an organization, and trust me, I know several people in high level corporate finance and it is not an easy or fast thing to occur. There has to be solid proof, evidance, and unbiased (very important) examination. They lost, will lose, and others will see themselves in the same situation, all I'm asking is you put both sides of the story on the table and let the everyman decide for himself.

Thanks for your consideration.
- Crazy Dave
deerfear.com

Footnote:
Also, people have asked exactly what "antler jockey" means, as it referrs to me. Antler Jockey is the psedenum I use when advertising, mostly because people don't know me as that person, and I like it that way, I want clear and concise info passed on with my personal opinions out of the picture. However just to explain, Antler means what it means, and Jockey is simply a way I jockey the position people have on Antlers.
Came up with it in 6 seconds flat, may not fit as well as I would like it.

Edited as requested.

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