NY pheasant stocking program may be eliminated

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Squirrelhawker
 
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RE: NY pheasant stocking program may be eliminated

Postby Squirrelhawker » Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:45 am

ORIGINAL: gutpile

Why on gods beautiful green earth will hunters think that the hsus has nothing to do with hunting bans, if the newyork stocking program is like washington the hunters pay for the birds with our pheasant card, on the west side of the cascades we dont have many wild pheasants but on the east side we have tons. Makes it so we can enjoy hunting on both sides.
Now why does anybody think that a program should go away like this?

Always amazes me that hunters will just lie back and watch things get taken away, then justify it. Just amazes me

 
My post on this thread was based entirely on the biology of the ring neck pheasant and the current state of the pheasant habitat in NY. Nowhere in my post, did I not think anti-were or were not behind this issue. As a matter of fact, I think I did mention the HSUS in my OP. But they or any other org do not play any part in why I think the pheasant program may no longer be viable. And if you read my post again, I think you'll see that.
In NY our tax dollars pay for the DEC to raise and stock birds. Birds that largely do not survive due to some serious habitat issues.

Squirrelhawker
 
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RE: NY pheasant stocking program may be eliminated

Postby Squirrelhawker » Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:13 am

ORIGINAL: beagleman23

SquirrelHawker-
If you logic holds true then the NYS DEC should stop stocking trout in our streams as most won't support a population year round.  Not to mention that there is plenty of places to stock pheasants, at least in western NY.  I,m still flushing 'stocked' pheasants at one of the State Parks down the road from me, however, they will not be there not year.  Not because there isn't habitat but due to all the raptors, foxes and coyotes.  I was it behind my old house which butted up to a small air park that was loaded with pheasants, rabits and deer.  I trained all my dogs there.  The town ordinance prevented hunting but slowly at first and more rapidly I witnessed the complete demise of the resident pheasant population and a notible decrease in rabbits but no change or increased deer populus.  There was no change in the habitat except a slight improvement were the runway was brush hogged back more and clover either was planted or grew naturally.  It occured to me one sunny March day on 3" of fresh snow as I found prefect wing imprints and the remains of some pheasant feathers.  I looked up in the sky to see 9 hawks, all redtail I believe, circling.  They moved on before I sold that house in 2006 but not before wiping out the pheasants that had populated that 30 acres for decades.  Just my two cents.

 
A logical question beagle, but I doubt there would be any argument that those trout are being utilized by way more anglers than the pheasants are by hunters. By the states own admission, the hunting side of the funding machine is the "orphan" compared to fisheries. And that, solely because fisheries experiences periodic increases in participation while hunting holds its own or slowly decreases.
 
As to predation, one can always find an instance where raptors capitilize on released birds, but any raptor in general misses 6-8 times out of ten.
If there is any serious impact to be made it is usually done by 4 footed predators that have the capability to clean out a nest if the opportunity presents itself. Wing marks in the snow usually mark the kill of a large buteo like the redtail. Which either got really lucky or more often, was presented with a pen raised bird that had no skills in evading an enemy.
The second redtail I trained never passed on the chance to take a pheasant. We had a few wild birds and since she was primarily a rabbit hunter we were out in the open a lot. It never ceased to amaze me that this bird that was capable of stylish stoops and wingovers on rabbits, never got the hang of killing pheasants. The birds would either hold until the last minute and flush, leaving her in a hopeless tailchase, or if a rooster it would go over on its back and commence to beat the crap out of her.
 
See it depends on what you're talkin about when it come to hawks. The goshawk is an awesome predator of game birds but not real common. It's smaller cousin the Coopers is not really big enough to take them reliably but a big enterprising female of the species can sometimes learn. The Redtail can learn to do just about anything but can never be considered a real threat to pheasants... unless you're chuckin' them out of boxes and driving away.
 
It still comes around to IF we had the right habitat and IF the birds were released in such a way as they could have a shot at survival, things might then be different. Your observations on the decline of some species and the incease in others is furthur proof of the subsequent shifting of growth and other habitat issues. Regardless of whether or not we notice it.

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JOEL
 
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RE: NY pheasant stocking program may be eliminated

Postby JOEL » Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:20 pm

i just read that all the remaining birds are going to be killed and given to the food pantry's.that burns me up big time.
"Go afield with a good attitude, with respect for the wildlife you hunt and for the forest and fields in which you walk. Immerse yourself in the outdoor experience. It will cleanse your soul and make you a better person." - Fred Bear

gutpile
 
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RE: NY pheasant stocking program may be eliminated

Postby gutpile » Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:19 pm

ORIGINAL: Squirrelhawker

ORIGINAL: gutpile

Why on gods beautiful green earth will hunters think that the hsus has nothing to do with hunting bans, if the newyork stocking program is like washington the hunters pay for the birds with our pheasant card, on the west side of the cascades we dont have many wild pheasants but on the east side we have tons. Makes it so we can enjoy hunting on both sides.
Now why does anybody think that a program should go away like this?

Always amazes me that hunters will just lie back and watch things get taken away, then justify it. Just amazes me


My post on this thread was based entirely on the biology of the ring neck pheasant and the current state of the pheasant habitat in NY. Nowhere in my post, did I not think anti-were or were not behind this issue. As a matter of fact, I think I did mention the HSUS in my OP. But they or any other org do not play any part in why I think the pheasant program may no longer be viable. And if you read my post again, I think you'll see that.
In NY our tax dollars pay for the DEC to raise and stock birds. Birds that largely do not survive due to some serious habitat issues.

Here the birds are not suppose to survive, they are planted for the sole purpose of hunting them, they do not want them to survive. thats why they dont plant the mongolian pheasant here that I hear can survive the conditions better than the ringer. And they dont plant the birds in ideal habitat here just find clearcuts and throw em out and shoot em up thats what it's about dog training and shooting practice..
Wheat is harvested, Animals are killed...

Squirrelhawker
 
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RE: NY pheasant stocking program may be eliminated

Postby Squirrelhawker » Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:26 am

And they dont plant the birds in ideal habitat here just find clearcuts and throw em out and shoot em up thats what it's about dog training and shooting practice..

 
 
Then, have at it and have fun, because that's what it is all about.
It's just that I'm old enough to remember actually hunting wild birds that would take you and the dogs all over the place in exciting chases and fantastic points. We don't get that often here from birds out of boxes.


 

gutpile
 
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RE: NY pheasant stocking program may be eliminated

Postby gutpile » Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:49 pm

ORIGINAL: Squirrelhawker

And they dont plant the birds in ideal habitat here just find clearcuts and throw em out and shoot em up thats what it's about dog training and shooting practice..



Then, have at it and have fun, because that's what it is all about.
It's just that I'm old enough to remember actually hunting wild birds that would take you and the dogs all over the place in exciting chases and fantastic points. We don't get that often here from birds out of boxes.




I go to the eastside if I need to hunt wild birds hav thousands of acres to hunt, but over here no such luck. I myself dont want to see any hunting programs go buy the weigh side...
Wheat is harvested, Animals are killed...

Highlander Archery
 
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RE: NY pheasant stocking program may be eliminated

Postby Highlander Archery » Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:01 pm

http: //www.evesun.com:80/news/stories/2008-12-26/5964/Pheasant-Program-cut-is-probably-just-the-beginning/

Dec. 26, 2008 Evening Sun

Pheasant Program cut is probably just the beginning

By Bob McNitt

I sincerely hope everyone had a wonderful Christmas, shared with family and perhaps some closest friends … it's what this special season is all about, even though it's sometimes difficult to realize, what with so many negative things swirling about the news these days.

One of the items that has concerned many avid sportsmen and women, as well as avid outdoors people, was the governor's decision to totally do away with the state's pheasant program. Especially bothersome because he made it as an executive decision, which meant neither the legislature nor statewide sportsmen or groups had any say in the matter whatsoever. His reasoning was the pheasant is an exotic imported species whose program cost to rear and stock was being eliminated as part of the budget cutting measure.

Unfortunately for the governor, that shirt didn't wash well, since the entire program was and has been totally funded by sportsmen dollars through annual income from license sales deposited in the dedicated Conservation Fund. The program has also been heavily subsidized, both physically and economically, by volunteers, and the "savings" at best might be $300,000, a drop in the bucket compared to the total NYSDEC budget of about $1.5B

Pheasants have been a part of our ecosystem for more than a century, but changes in agriculture, extensive land development replacing habitat, and other factors have seen the numbers able to survive and reproduce in the wilds diminish. However, they still do in areas more intune with their needs, such as the lower Hudson Valley , Long Island and western New York . The thingy pheasant is also one of the most beautiful game birds in the world. To see one is a real treat and probably a sight we may never see again outside of private preserves.

As far as an imported exotic, we have plenty of other species that have become household words – the brown trout (from Germany), the starling, sparrow and pigeon (from England), wild pigs, donkeys and horses (from Europe), and many others. So why single out pheasants just because they're considered a gamebird. They are also viewed by people other than hunters … birders, children on nature discovery walks, etc., etc. Many kids in rural areas have learned much about responsibility and wildlife, thanks to the 4-H and sportsmen clubs' popular pheasant chick-rearing programs.

If the program had been funded by general taxpayers' money, there likely wouldn't have been the uproar it's created with license-buying sportsmen/women who see it as another nail in the coffin of DEC's once promising fish and wildlife programs that dated back to the old NYS Conservation Department. But what has many scared right now is what's next …. wildlife habitat and management, fisheries, public access, parks, forestry management? The current DEC is so environmentally top-heavy, there's little left for fish and wildlife programs, and even that could worsen if the governor and legislature (all controlled by Downstate) chooses to insulate its "total Green" budget mindset at the cost of all else. With the NY Environmental Protection coffers currently bulging with more than $200M, it certainly makes little sense to axe a popular program that, at best. might carve $300,000 off the huge state deficit

The governor has also indicated he'd like to add a $10 special trout-salmon stamp over and above the cost of a fishing license. That could very well lead to a special mandatory stamp being required for every huntable or catchable wildlife and fish species in the state, from bass to bluegills and squirrels to rabbits. All this when state residents, especially upstate, are struggling just to make ends meet.

Although I keep saying "governor," this is probably the work of Judith Enck who holds the newly created title of Deputy Secretary for the Environment and who is a staunch environmentalist with a reputed distaste for upstate sportsmen/women, hunting and firearms ownership, despite being raised in the Catskills. Ms Enck, in fact, is likely DEC Commissioner Pete Grannis' real boss and has the ear of Governor Paterson on all matters affecting the outdoors. Apparently when Ms. Enck says "Jump," both Paterson and Grannis do. The "New York Times" nicknamed her "the tart-tongued Judith Enck."

I guess what is bothering so many people is that the current administration fails to listen or heed the professional advice of its DEC biologists and experts on many matters, but rather either ignores their advice or acts in the best interests of those appointed or elected to high positions in the state capitol, most of them from New York City. Ironic in a way since I would never feel qualified to say what's best for NYC, but apparently some downstaters in high positions feel they know what's best for upstate and its residents.
The "us versus them" scenario has been going on for some time now. But as the budget cuts are made known, it may only get worse, especially for sportsmen/women and other outdoor enthusiasts.

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Sailfish
 
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RE: NY pheasant stocking program may be eliminated

Postby Sailfish » Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:18 am

Thanks Highland! Everyone needs to know the truth.
Environmentalists are everywhere and will stop at nothing to accomplish their agenda.
Hunters and sportsmans need to remain united on all fronts, the above folks will never stop, nor should we.
"Go as far as you can see; when you get there, you'll be able to see farther."

msbadger
 
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RE: NY pheasant stocking program may be eliminated

Postby msbadger » Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:01 am

So now that the birds are gone what will be the trickle down? The program the state offers to keep fields open for the birds? then what happens...the ppl that kept that land for wild life...... due to payments they got from the program that off set NY ever rising taxes sell or develop?  Slippery slope isn't it? Blameing raptors for the birds demize is well... reaching...try your comon house cat that bred a glut of ferrrel cats..Which IMO the state should mandate spaying and nuetering before any cats leave a pet shop or breeder unless said buyer is paying a yearly fee to keep a pure bred cat and is actively showing it...the lack of raccoon hunting rise in skunks...ect
 
Then I think why haven't all the pheasant hunters gathered as did the WTF and start a successul breeding and release program of their own? Perhaps that is what can happen now...wouldn't that be sticking it to the anti's ...to show them as hunters we won't stand for the demise of even one hunting venue and then theyed have one more strong organized group to fight...then perhaps.... perhaps the birds mentioned that could survive would be breed and released.....of course that won't help the next cut fisheries

Highlander Archery
 
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RE: NY pheasant stocking program may be eliminated

Postby Highlander Archery » Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:31 am

ORIGINAL: msbadger

So now that the birds are gone what will be the trickle down? The program the state offers to keep fields open for the birds? then what happens...the ppl that kept that land for wild life...... due to payments they got from the program that off set NY ever rising taxes sell or develop?  Slippery slope isn't it? Blameing raptors for the birds demize is well... reaching...try your comon house cat that bred a glut of ferrrel cats..Which IMO the state should mandate spaying and nuetering before any cats leave a pet shop or breeder unless said buyer is paying a yearly fee to keep a pure bred cat and is actively showing it...the lack of raccoon hunting rise in skunks...ect

Then I think why haven't all the pheasant hunters gathered as did the WTF and start a successul breeding and release program of their own? Perhaps that is what can happen now...wouldn't that be sticking it to the anti's ...to show them as hunters we won't stand for the demise of even one hunting venue and then theyed have one more strong organized group to fight...then perhaps.... perhaps the birds mentioned that could survive would be breed and released.....of course that won't help the next cut fisheries


Far more important than a reactive response is to be PROACTIVE and nip these efforts in the bud. Far too often hunters view themselves as existing in a vacuum and show no concern till their particular view of hunting is already in the crosshairs.Far too many resources are wasted fighting amongst ourselves when they would be better directed at fighting the antis.

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