Michigan Bans Baiting & Feeding

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Archery_NUT
 
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RE: Michigan Bans Baiting & Feeding

Postby Archery_NUT » Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:21 pm

it sucks don't it but as long as we keep up being able to hunt i am alright with it until the matter is sorted out atleast
bad day of hunting beats a good day of school or work anytime

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dmcianfa
 
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RE: Michigan Bans Baiting & Feeding

Postby dmcianfa » Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:54 am

ORIGINAL: gutpile

ORIGINAL: dmcianfa

If a deer is infected with CWD and is a buck that deer will travel and come into contact with most deer in the area in his pursuit for a doe. and the does will get it and spread it to the other deer, so if CWD is in an area would baiting spread it more?
[/quote

Yes, and if you think baiting will not spread the disease more rapidly and expose deer in higher concentrations then you are flat out ignorant because baiting, as everyone here knows, concentrates deer in a small area thereby increasing the risk of communicable diseases.  Browsing is much different than "trough" feeding.  I hope you can see that!

my ignorance blinds me from seeing anything. But I do not see baiting drawing deer in from afar. maybe I am wrong and the deer will travel many hundreds of  miles after getting a wiff of bait.. Or it will just draw in the ones in the immediate area..

 
That is the most ridiculous thought I've ever heard in my life concerning the CWD and the travel of deer.  What your saying is baiting is ok for CWD because it only feeds the deer in your immediate area.  WTF.  I've read articles of deer travelling 60-80 miles to winter, do you not think they will travel 10 miles to another bait pile and infect that areas deer as well, and then those deer travel another 10 miles to another bait pile, and on and on and on.  Somebody tell this guy to wake up and smell the coffee or at least how far off he is besides me, please, because I am losing my patience with the narrow mindedness!
"I enjoy and become completely immersed in the challenge and the increased opportunity to become for a time a part of nature. Deer hunting is a classical exercise in freedom. It�s a return to fundamentals that I distinctly feel are basic and right"-F.B.

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RE: Michigan Bans Baiting & Feeding

Postby dmcianfa » Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:57 am

Smoothbore,
 
Do us all a favor and post on the subject with an actual opinion instead of bashing others with negative personal remarks.   That is not what this forum is for!
"I enjoy and become completely immersed in the challenge and the increased opportunity to become for a time a part of nature. Deer hunting is a classical exercise in freedom. It�s a return to fundamentals that I distinctly feel are basic and right"-F.B.

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RE: Michigan Bans Baiting & Feeding

Postby dmcianfa » Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:17 am

ORIGINAL: gutpile

ORIGINAL: dmcianfa

ORIGINAL: lemmondeer

think the ban on baiting stinks.  For two main reasons.  We need to get our kids involved in hunting! After all when we are gone they will be the ones supporting the outdoors.  I have taken my boy out hunting with me for the last 3 years.  He is 8 years old.  I do not hunt over bait without him, but with him I usually do so we can see a good number of deer.  He loved going out hunting.  Now lets face it, he is 8 and to get him to walk two miles to my "good" stand with out bait is unlikely (and no offense, but kids can be noisy, touch things, have to urinate, etc...not something I want to happen by my "good" stands).  I need to have a stand close, and one where he can see deer!  We have gone out 3 times together this season with the bait ban and only saw 2 does about 70 yards away.  This is not good.  Now he does not even want to go out, I do not blame him.  Young kids have short attention spans.  It is too bad.  The moral of it...Hunting over bait is no different than hunting at a ranch or an outfitter, it is true.  Too many deer in a small place can cause problems.  Hunting on state land is alot more difficult.  If I am filling some doe tags I try to do it with my son and at a short walking distance from the car and yes...over bait.  He gets to see more animals. The simple fact of the matter is that not alot of mature bucks come to bait, yes maybe if on a hot doe. But, not everyone is just after a buck...some of us are just trying to get some venison and introduce our children to the outdoors.  Anyways, we need to be filling more doe tags and what quicker way to do it than over bait with your kid.  People need to envision themselves in the shoes of others...not all Michigan hunters can afford to pay to hunt at a ranch, not all Michigan hunters have access to private land and farms, How often are you able to pick a stand spot on state land that your young children can make it too where you will actually see a good number of deer without a concentrated food source?  I mean really?  Real hunter or not.  It is time I have to spend with my child, I want him too like it not think it is boring.  When he gets older he will learn the actual art of hunting, now I have to just get him to like it! For those that are "preaching" how horrible it is to hunt over bait I have a question...An HONEST answer would be appreciated.  How many of you actually bowhunt hunt on STATE land (not a farm, not a ranch, not an outfitter) exclusively and year after year kill mature bucks?  You don't have to answer on here but think about it.  State land is tough hunting, there is no doubt about it.  You definately can arrow some monsters on state land but it usually takes countless hours and hours of scouting to do this.  Not all of us have those countless hours and hours to scout and hunt state land that is far away from our home...some of us have to work, are in school, have functions at our children's schools.    We need to accommodate those individuals too, whether you like it or not.  We need to be able to get our children interested.  And not all of us can afford 500.00 management hunts for our children on a ranch! I don't think that all of you "real" hunters can control the entire michigan deer population all by yourselves either (state land I mean, I am not talking about the deer population on a farm or a ranch)  Can I just say one other thing...I have never hunted on a deer ranch...but I have hunted on many commercial lands, and farms.  The difficulty level in shooting a mature buck on a farm or a commercial land is so much easier that on state land.  When I get permission to hunt on a farm I have always harvested a mature buck...always.  The difficulty levels goes way down compared to state land.  This is from experience.  I am just saying, unless you are an exclusive STATE LAND hunter, I don't think you really have the right to say that you can take mature bucks every year without the use of bait unless you do it year after year on STATE LAND yourself!  Those who do should really be commended...those are the REAL hunters!  I am not taking about myself either...I pale in comparison to those guys!


Here is my thoughts on children and hunting.  You should teach your children from the start that hunting is not always a successful venture.  Nature is not always in our favor and teach them to value the time you spend with each other, father and son/daughter, rather than the reward of an animal at the end of the hunt.  Results in the game is not the goal and never should be with a child.  The enjoyment of nature, comradity, wildlife viewing of all species while hunting are far more important than the kill.  The earlier the child gets this into their head the quicker they are to enjoy hunting than expecting results on every outing and will welcome the chance to go out with Dad, not express that "what's the point".  That is why they call it hunting, is it not?  I am ashamed at all the parents out there that use their kids as tools or pry levers to justify their views on baiting.  Shame on you!  You should be teaching your kids that hunting is much more than the "kill" itself and implant the values of ethics, morals, and patience in the woods first and foremost.  And, if you kid tells you he/she doesn't want to hunt anymore, fine, but you should make every effort to coax him and teach him the value of nature as opposed to their video games.  I'll tell you one thing, my father did this at a very early age with me and even took me out when I didn't want to at times, but I look back at those hunts that didn't produce even one deer sighting and I think those may be some of the most memorable hunts with my father because we connected and interacted with each other.  It was never about results, just spending quality time together.  I'm thankful he got me away from the TV and instilled those ideals into me and your child will too when they get older.  Make them understand there are less privelaged kids that don't even have the chance to hunt, let alone see a deer every time out.  Also, if you value the time with your child enough you will include them in scouting and venturing in the outdoors or where you hunt to become a better hunter by finding bedding, feeding, and travel corridors.  Put the time in if its that important to you and your son/daughter.  If it's not, then quit and don't complain to anyone about it and realize baiting concentrates deer into tight quarters where communicable diseases more rapidly spread and then watch out, you may not have a deer population at all in 10 years!!! Then none of us will see a deer.  I've never hunted at a ranch and the thought makes me sick by the way!  Bottomline, if its important to you, you will put in the time and effort.  I'm sick of people looking for the easy way every time they approach a hobby, sport, job, whatever.  Whatever happened to hard work gets results?  Now that is something to teach our children!!!

Kids have very little attention spans, thats a fact! Getting them a kill will keep them hunting! They will learn over time what hunting is about, and they will not understand at early ages as to why daddy likes to sit in a tree for hours and just sit and sit. Myself I believe you should let the youngins go and kill easy game like tree rats, rabbits. get them wanting to go take them scouting were they have to walk around with you. But yes the kill is very important for kids. And shame on you for telling parents they are doing something wrong, by trying to get their kids on a kill you are not the sole authority on teaching of hunting do it your way let the others do it their's..  


Is that your only goal in hunting, to get a kill for you or your kid?  If so, that is why I say shame on parents.  And maybe the world would be a better place if parents instilled this a little more.  As every hunter knows your goal is to kill an animal in the end, but it shouldn't be a necessity to have fun with your kid in and around nature while doing so.  And teaching your child to respect that not every time your going to shoot will keep them in the sport much longer than, "if we don't see a deer this year dad, then this is my last hunting season!"  What are you teaching your kids that they say this?  I say it portrays this, that if there isn't success and a kill on every outing then we can quit.   If you teach your kids this then they will never deal with failure in life well in anything they do, because you are essentially telling your child that if things don't go your way or start to get hairy then you can always back out and quit!!!!  That is how some parents are PREPARING our kids for the future!  Great, I can't wait till they grow up and lead and hold prominent positions when were older.  So, what your saying is this, if I can't have the bait pile for my kid to get a kill, well I'll just let him quit and maybe I will too as a result.  Phoowey,  That is why I say shame on you!

I do realize that kids have a very short attention span, but what does that have to do with a 100 lb bag of corn bait pile as opposed to say a food plot or acorn patch.  Maybe, don't hunt all day with your kid if they don't have a very long attention span and use a ground approach if they won't stay still in a treestand.  These are alternatives that a parent can take, but no, we want the easy way no matter what the consequences for our deer herd and regardless if there is an infected rampant deer herd in 10 years, at least my child shot a deer every year over bait until he was 16.  That my friends is selfishness  at its best!
"I enjoy and become completely immersed in the challenge and the increased opportunity to become for a time a part of nature. Deer hunting is a classical exercise in freedom. It�s a return to fundamentals that I distinctly feel are basic and right"-F.B.

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DeerCamp
 
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RE: Michigan Bans Baiting & Feeding

Postby DeerCamp » Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:26 am

Let's stop the bashing guys...Or Im going to have to delete this post.
 
As far as I am concernd.. I really dont think that there is a deer with cwd in MI. I think it's just away to tick off the hunters and make money for the dnr here. We all know that the dnr in MI are loosing jobs like crazy and money every year. So why not make a baiting ban and ban baiting? I am only saying this because a guy at my work got busted for baiting. He took a scoop full of beats out and he got busted hunting over it. All the dnr did was give him a fine and left... Kinda fishy huh? If there is such a worry about this cwd, dont ya think he would have made him remove all of the beats?
"If I pull the hammer and shoot this young buck, he's dead. But if I pass on him, the next hunter might not shoot so straight."

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RE: Michigan Bans Baiting & Feeding

Postby Smoothbore » Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:14 am

dmcianfa,
 
First off in another post you said you were going to block me, do me a favor and just do it. As for me bashing you I'm not bashing you but stating an opinion. You on the other hand are very hypocritical you bash people on a number of different fronts. You state on a number of different posts that people are fat and lazy as well as not being good parents if that is not the pot calling the kettle black I don't know what is. You asked me on another thread not to respond to you and I said no problem and I didn't but when you constantly attack people on things that they are doing legally thats were I have to draw the line. It's happened here as well as on the crossbow thread. So when you stop posting negative things about a broad group of people I'll do the same.

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RE: Michigan Bans Baiting & Feeding

Postby dmcianfa » Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:31 am

ORIGINAL: Smoothbore

Hey gutpile,

You'd probably be better off banging your head against a wall rather than arguing with him you can put out exact facts and he'll completely ignore them. His way is the best way all others are inferior and stupid. Just remember we're just fat lazy ignorant hicks here[8|]

 
If this isn't an all out direct assault at bashing me personally, which I never did to you in the post (you can read all previous from THIS thread), frankly, I don't know what is then.  You are condescending and using these inappropriate terms to describe me just to get people in your corner or make yourself feel better, I'm just not wure which yet!  Please refrain from directing insults towards other people in this manner, I never personally did this only used the words, such as "parents" and "people".  I am only asking this simple thing, I'm not trying to urk you in this post.  Please just post on your thoughts and not direct angry statements such as the one quoted above, we can all get along and have our seperate views too you know!
"I enjoy and become completely immersed in the challenge and the increased opportunity to become for a time a part of nature. Deer hunting is a classical exercise in freedom. It�s a return to fundamentals that I distinctly feel are basic and right"-F.B.

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RE: Michigan Bans Baiting & Feeding

Postby Smoothbore » Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:55 am

dmcianfa,
 
Here's a news flash when you label a group of people as fat and lazy because they are doing something which is legal but which you don't agree with you are personally attacking each individual that does it. The same goes with parenting just because you don't agree with what these guys are doing with thier kids it does not make it wrong. I will also point out that you personally called someone ignorant and narrow minded is that not a personal attack?
 
Ya know the sad fact is I actually agree with you on this subject just not for the same reasons. My feeling is they detected CWD in the herd and are doing what they feel is best to eradicate it. Living in Ohio I really don't want this spreading down here.
 
So if you keep on attacking groups of people for doing things that are perfectly legal I'll keep calling you out on it if you don't like it block me. I'm not trying to offend you I'm just pointing out that your posts come off as very elitist and holier than thou.

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RE: Michigan Bans Baiting & Feeding

Postby dmcianfa » Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:53 am

So be it.  Let's post on the issue at hand here and discontinue the bashing, i beg of you.  You continue to bait me into replying with equally harsh remarks as yours, which you expect I return to add more fuel to the fire, but I'm afraid I'm not interested in that type of conversation with you.  If you would like to continue your salvo on me please feel free to pm me instead of hijacking the thread for personal reasons, other than stepping on one another's necks in this particular thread.  People need to feel they can express their opinions without being chastised and those are my opinions take it or leave it.  That's all I have to say about that and I would rather not get into a "he said, she said" argument. 

On a lighter note, I will address my main point from the start, that baiting is counterproductive to the efforts of controlling CWD and I have faith that our good friends in the MI Dept. of Natural Resources have made the right decision for the FUTURE of this species and that our privelages to hunt this magnificent animal have been cemented for years to come with this new law.  I look on the bright side of the "banned baiting" law and embrace the fact that the playing field has been leveled, where now the true nature of hunting can take place.  Call me a traditionalist or old fashioned, but I am who I am.
"I enjoy and become completely immersed in the challenge and the increased opportunity to become for a time a part of nature. Deer hunting is a classical exercise in freedom. It�s a return to fundamentals that I distinctly feel are basic and right"-F.B.

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RE: Michigan Bans Baiting & Feeding

Postby Smoothbore » Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:23 am

Hey I'm just addressing remarks you made in your posts your the one that posted them not me.
 
Again I agree with the baiting ban but I do not feel because someone hunts over a bait pile it makes them fat, lazy, or a bad parent shame on anyone who thinks that. Not trying to "bait " anyone (no pun intended) just stating my opinion.

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