Jimmy Houston - High Fence Hunt

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kellory
 
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Re: Jimmy Houston - High Fence Hunt

Postby kellory » Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:25 pm

Big Horse wrote:Whats the average home range of a whitetail? 1 square mile? Yet high fenced ranches 10 times that are considered cages?


Deer wander through my city. even down the median of the freeway, many miles from the nearest woods. And zoos try to match the habitat of the animals in their pens, to the closest match terrain they can, but it is still a cage. And animals raised in these cages, often can not be released back into the wild without retraining them, simply because they are different from the real thing. A cage, no matter how large, is still a cage.
Is it a hunt, if an animal is trapped in the barn? Or backed up against a bridge embankment, or stuck in broken ice? There is a reason a dog park has a fence around it, it is so the dogs can not leave on their own. They can run to their hearts content, but they can not leave. People only lose their dogs when they fight at dog parks, not because they beat the fence.
So yes, It is still hunting a cage. :(
The only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker is observation. All the same data is present for both. The rest is understanding what you are seeing.

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Big Horse
 
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Re: Jimmy Houston - High Fence Hunt

Postby Big Horse » Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:51 pm

Sounds like the whole world is made up of cages. We're all canned hunters enclosed by water. I think I'll hunt anyways.
Live to Hunt, Hunt to Live.

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kellory
 
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Re: Jimmy Houston - High Fence Hunt

Postby kellory » Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:15 pm

Big Horse wrote:Sounds like the whole world is made up of cages. We're all canned hunters enclosed by water. I think I'll hunt anyways.



You could take that to extremes, and say the whole world is one big cage. The difference is, we all evolved together, with our abilities intact, our natural defenses in place, our instincts made sense due to our environment. At no time was any of these creatures, evolved with a chain around it's neck, a fondness for enclosed areas, or lazer beams sprouting from it's forehead. Some things go to far.
For me, hunting in a cage goes too far. The animal can not use all the abilities God gave it to play it's part in this game. It might as well be hamstrung, because it can not effectively flee, which is it's primary defense. It is a cheat, an ace up a sleeve, a marked card. It changes the game from a test of skill and craft, to a game of how far do I fleece them?
No matter how badly a hunter does his part, or how well, the deer may not agree to do it's part, or the weather may play a part, you might get busted, or miss a shot. Here, that hidden ace is played, that deer, no matter how spooked, injured or not, can not leave. It can be tracked, hunted over and over, pursued until it drops, or left to settle down and hunted again. It has no way to relocate, It's fate is sealed, just the date of execution is unclear.

You are free to hunt in accordance with your laws, but as my own choice, I will not hunt drugged, near dead, or caged animals, as these men did do.
If the deer is not at the top of it's game, it would cheapen me, to take it.
The only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker is observation. All the same data is present for both. The rest is understanding what you are seeing.

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buckhunter21
 
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Re: Jimmy Houston - High Fence Hunt

Postby buckhunter21 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:04 pm

unclebuck wrote:BigIron if the 21st century is hunting in a cage sitting in a stand 30 yrds away from an automatic feeder where deer congregate like nuns to a church than I will stay in the dark ages here in Wisconsin. Heres an article you may like too. By the way Dr. Kroll didnt tell us anything the people of Wisconsin didnt already know. You can have him back. Have fun in your cage.

http://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/blogs ... funny-math


well said!
QDM!

BigIron
 
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Re: Jimmy Houston - High Fence Hunt

Postby BigIron » Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:38 am

unclebuck wrote:BigIron if the 21st century is hunting in a cage sitting in a stand 30 yrds away from an automatic feeder where deer congregate like nuns to a church than I will stay in the dark ages here in Wisconsin. Heres an article you may like too. By the way Dr. Kroll didnt tell us anything the people of Wisconsin didnt already know. You can have him back. Have fun in your cage.

http://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/blogs ... funny-math


What an ignorant article. First, no one can know how many deer are killed in Texas because we don't force our citizens to submit to that level of bullshit govt. control.

The only valid guess is based on how many licenses sold (last number I saw was 1.2 million in 2007). I know and meet several hundred hunters each year. I don't KNOW anyone here who doesn't kill at least a few management deer a year.

Suffice to say that any VALID gestimate for deer killed in Texas annually would have to be well north of a million.

And I REALLY do enjoy the cage references from you "fair chase" hunters.

Oh man. Keep'em coming! Even though my "cages" are in most cases much larger than any of your "cages", your persistence in attempting to denigrate someone else's hunting methods shows just how little you know hunting, wildlife, and care about the future of the sport.

Farmland hunters posting up on a few acres of cover blocking access to the only food the deer can get to... oh man, the irony and hypocricy! Thank you all for the entertainment. (just remember, I think your way of hunting your "cage" is JUST FINE!)
I'd rather be a fencepost in Texas than king of the world.

deadeyedog
 
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Re: Jimmy Houston - High Fence Hunt

Postby deadeyedog » Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:54 am

I find this to be very disturbing. Hunter ethics and morals are all we have to stand on. Its the morals and standars that i hunt and live by, that make me proud to be a Deer Hunter!!!!!!

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Big Horse
 
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Re: Jimmy Houston - High Fence Hunt

Postby Big Horse » Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:21 pm

kellory wrote:
Big Horse wrote:Sounds like the whole world is made up of cages. We're all canned hunters enclosed by water. I think I'll hunt anyways.



You could take that to extremes, and say the whole world is one big cage. The difference is, we all evolved together, with our abilities intact, our natural defenses in place, our instincts made sense due to our environment. At no time was any of these creatures, evolved with a chain around it's neck, a fondness for enclosed areas, or lazer beams sprouting from it's forehead. Some things go to far.
For me, hunting in a cage goes too far. The animal can not use all the abilities God gave it to play it's part in this game. It might as well be hamstrung, because it can not effectively flee, which is it's primary defense. It is a cheat, an ace up a sleeve, a marked card. It changes the game from a test of skill and craft, to a game of how far do I fleece them?
No matter how badly a hunter does his part, or how well, the deer may not agree to do it's part, or the weather may play a part, you might get busted, or miss a shot. Here, that hidden ace is played, that deer, no matter how spooked, injured or not, can not leave. It can be tracked, hunted over and over, pursued until it drops, or left to settle down and hunted again. It has no way to relocate, It's fate is sealed, just the date of execution is unclear.

You are free to hunt in accordance with your laws, but as my own choice, I will not hunt drugged, near dead, or caged animals, as these men did do.
If the deer is not at the top of it's game, it would cheapen me, to take it.


So we agree that there are extremes. I'll submit that there are enclosures that limit the challenge of the pursuit to something less than I care to participate in (although I'll defend the right to do it), and how about you admit that there are many a high fence operation that are so large that they have minimal if any effect on the animals ability to evade or escape?

If I calculated correctly, a bow hunter hunting a 10,000 acre high fenced ranch, for an animal who's average home range is about 1 square mile, is hunting an area almost 16 times the home range of the animal he is hunting, not to mention the 30 yards +/- effective shooting range of his weapon, yet that somehow creates and unfair, unethical, immoral hunting situation? Are you kidding me?

If it so desired, in an attempt to evade, the animal located in the middle of a 10,000 acre square could travel upwards of 2 times its average home range before it would ever encounter the obstacle/enclosure, and if upon doing so changed direction, could again travel up to 4 times its home range before ever encountering a similar obstacle/enclosure while the average deer hunter couldn't jog a couple hundred yards without getting winded. While my hunting grounds are not behind high fences, I find that my quarry usually only need to be about 10 yards outside my effective shooting range to eliminate me as a threat.

There are always extremes, and this high fenced cannibalism has become extremely ridiculous.
Live to Hunt, Hunt to Live.

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Jslotter
 
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Re: Jimmy Houston - High Fence Hunt

Postby Jslotter » Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:08 pm

Is there a reason for putting up a high fence around a 10,000 acre block of land? Whats the purpose of the fence?
I only hunt on days that end in ' Y '.

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kellory
 
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Re: Jimmy Houston - High Fence Hunt

Postby kellory » Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:55 pm

First, no one can know how many deer are killed in Texas because we don't force our citizens to submit to that level of bullshit govt. control.

The only valid guess is based on how many licenses sold (last number I saw was 1.2 million in 2007). I know and meet several hundred hunters each year. I don't KNOW anyone here who doesn't kill at least a few management deer a year.

Suffice to say that any VALID gestimate for deer killed in Texas annually would have to be well north of a million.

And I REALLY do enjoy the cage references from you "fair chase" hunters.

Oh man. Keep'em coming! Even though my "cages" are in most cases much larger than any of your "cages", your persistence in attempting to denigrate someone else's hunting methods shows just how little you know hunting, wildlife, and care about the future of the sport.

Farmland hunters posting up on a few acres of cover blocking access to the only food the deer can get to... oh man, the irony and hypocricy! Thank you all for the entertainment. (just remember, I think your way of hunting your "cage" is JUST FINE!)[/quote]

"First, no one can know how many deer are killed in Texas because we don't force our citizens to submit to that level of bullshit govt. control" Actually, they will have a trouble with the numbers because Texas has changed their method of Guestamate as well, which adds about 100,000 to the kill numbers without really seeing dead deer.

Second, language. Keep it clean please, kids use this site.

Third,"And I REALLY do enjoy the cage references from you "fair chase" hunters." fair Chase is not a phrase I use. I work to be the best hunter I can be. I adapt to what the hunt requires of me. high, low, pit blind, stalk, I change, not the game. I will not maim the game to make my job easier. A fence maims the animal by cutting off it's ability to flee. (it's primary response) Even if your fences slid into the ground at the start of each hunt, the damage has been done. Pavlov's Dogs learned that a bell ringing means food, but they also learned that they could not escape electrical shocks and would even lay down and die, even though the door between cages was open. They had learned futility. The deer know the fence will not let them pass, it will effect what they do, and what they will not do. It is part of the hunt, weather you hunt near it or not.

Fourth, "Farmland hunters posting up on a few acres of cover blocking access to the only food the deer can get to... oh man, the irony and hypocricy! Thank you all for the entertainment. (just remember, I think your way of hunting your "cage" is JUST FINE!)[/quote]" I have no cages. I hunt woods, fields, some crops, but there is little a deer can not eat here. they will strip the bark from the trees if they get hungry enough. They will not be pulled by their stomachs, but may be lured by their tastebuds, if you have something tastier than what they already have. Cover, and access is everywhere here. They come even from the inner city, as they are safe from hunting in the city, and people feed them. They have nothing BUT access. So get past this fallacy of one food source, and one access. This idea is completely false.

Fifth, ."Oh man. Keep'em coming! Even though my "cages" are in most cases much larger than any of your "cages", your persistence in attempting to denigrate someone else's hunting methods shows just how little you know hunting, wildlife, and care about the future of the sport." The future of our sport, does not lie in marching in lockstep, daring anyone to gainsay us or feel or wrath, but more like a musical melody, of many parts. Most will play background, some will play counterpoint,other will sing solos, and some will just join in during the refrains. All leading to an appreciation of the music as a whole, not just the braying of one loud horn. This is hunting"s Unchained Melody.

Sixth, and last. I don't care what you think of my method, or style of hunting. I am not trying to impress anyone. I simply stated why I will not join you in your style of hunting. It's is legal, so do it. But I will not join you, even if it was free. I will not cage a deer, any more than I will cage birds. I will not maim the bird just to bend it to my will.
The only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker is observation. All the same data is present for both. The rest is understanding what you are seeing.

BigIron
 
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Re: Jimmy Houston - High Fence Hunt

Postby BigIron » Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:13 pm

Jslotter wrote:Is there a reason for putting up a high fence around a 10,000 acre block of land? Whats the purpose of the fence?

Absolutely there is a reason for fencing 10,000 acres. It's called private property rights. If you don't fence it in Texas (where hunting is a multi billion dollar industry) the neighbor is able to take advantage of your management expenses.

I may spend hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in habitat improvement, feeding, genetic improvement etc., only to allow the neighbor to shoot the product of my efforts and expense. A high fence guarantees that I can reap the benefits of my expense and efforts.

It really boils down to a political issue. Folks who want free stuff and the "right" to live off the work ethic and efforts of others have a problem seeing the justification of high fencing.

Sorry. But you really need to face the mirror.
I'd rather be a fencepost in Texas than king of the world.

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