"Hunting is a privilege, not a right"

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JPH
 
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Re: "Hunting is a privilege, not a right"

Postby JPH » Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:37 am

^ Agreed.

Let's look at it another way. Clearly the natural law indicates a right to defend one's self. Most of us even have the natural tools to do harm to an aggressor in our fists and our feet. Our forefathers went so far as to include the keeping and bearing of arms in the Constitution so as to collectively defend ourselves as the Militia. But we do not have the right to USE violence or arms unless placed in a situation where it is necessary to defend ones life. The 2nd Amendment seeks to keep us armed but he right to self-defense only exists in the face of a threat. We cannot use violence at will, it is not a right that stands alone.

The same is true for hunting. I have the right to live. I have a right to chose my own path. I have the right to possess arms. But I cannot take these as an indication that I can then connect the dots and begin hunting as if I have a God given right to do so. If I lost my hunting privileges, I could continue to feed my family outside of the commercial meet industry. I could expand my garden, I could buy livestock, etc. The natural law only points to hunting if it were necessary for subsistence.

My bottom line is that while the means to hunt are acknowledge and protected, just like the means to defend one's self, actual hunting or the use of force do not become s rights unless it is in response to a threat on one's life.

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shaman
 
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Re: "Hunting is a privilege, not a right"

Postby shaman » Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:54 pm

Okay. we can now all agree: hunting is a natural right. Sport hunting is a privilege. Done.
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Woods Walker
 
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Re: "Hunting is a privilege, not a right"

Postby Woods Walker » Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:53 pm

Does this mean that we all now get to sing "Kumbya"?
Hunt Hard,

Kill Swiftly,

Waste Nothing,

Offer No Apologies.....

>>>--------------------------------->
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BigIron
 
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Re: "Hunting is a privilege, not a right"

Postby BigIron » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:55 am

Woods Walker wrote:Does this mean that we all now get to sing "Kumbya"?


No, it means I'm gonna let BigHorse come straighten your misguided butts out. I would not deprive him of the pleasure. Dear Lord you have certainly perverted this thread though...
I'd rather be a fencepost in Texas than king of the world.

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Woods Walker
 
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Re: "Hunting is a privilege, not a right"

Postby Woods Walker » Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:45 am

BigIron wrote:
Woods Walker wrote:Does this mean that we all now get to sing "Kumbya"?


No, it means I'm gonna let BigHorse come straighten your misguided butts out. I would not deprive him of the pleasure. Dear Lord you have certainly perverted this thread though...


Well from one pervert to another....HAPPY TAX DAY! :mrgreen:
Hunt Hard,

Kill Swiftly,

Waste Nothing,

Offer No Apologies.....

>>>--------------------------------->
NRA Endowment Life Member

retch sweeny
 
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Re: "Hunting is a privilege, not a right"

Postby retch sweeny » Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:07 am

shaman wrote:Okay. we can now all agree: hunting is a natural right. Sport hunting is a privilege. Done.


Correct, Hunting (nor fishing) is a constitutional right. It is a privlege and nothing more. To agrue otherwise exposes your limited horizons. ;)

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Deebz
 
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Re: "Hunting is a privilege, not a right"

Postby Deebz » Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:45 am

My question is this then: If the distinction is between "sport hunting" and "hunting for sustenance", where does my type of hunting fall? I hunt for deer. When I shoot a deer, I butcher and process and eat the deer. I have not bought beef for my house for a number of years at this point. (Aside from restaurants and my Father-in-Law's cattle operation I purchase/eat very little beef in general.) If the deer I shoot happens to be a nice buck I will hang its antlers on my wall. I also take enjoyment in hunting as a pasttime. It's a source of exercise and relaxation for me. Where's the line?

Do we need to force people to buy permits and hunting licenses only if they shoot a "trophy" animal? Many of us would agree that any animal we shoot is a trophy whether it's for the wall or the table. Which scoring club's standards do we use to determine a trophy.

Does the argument then become whether or not a person can afford to buy meat at the store or not? I feel this would violate my right to choose what I spend my money on (as per the Obamacare statements Shaman made...)

I guess I just don't feel like you can take a topic as basic as "hunting" and divide it up into different categories. Whatever the reason, the end result is the same: a dead animal.


and Retch: I agree that neither hunting or fishing is a "constitutional right"... but I don't think that is the discussion. After having several conversations with some people who know a lot more of history and politics than I do, I've come to understand that the constitution doesn't really GIVE us any rights. It is designed to limit the government and PROTECT the rights we as people naturally have. I disagree that hunting/fishing are "priveleges". If the government sets regulations and limits on those activities; and our government is of the people, by the people, for the people; and I am definitely one of said 'people', then it is not other people allowing me to partake (aka: privelege)...
"When a hunter is in a tree stand with high moral values and with the proper hunting ethics and richer for the experience, that hunter is 20 feet closer to God." ~Fred Bear

BigIron
 
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Re: "Hunting is a privilege, not a right"

Postby BigIron » Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:39 pm

Woods Walker wrote:
BigIron wrote:
Woods Walker wrote:Does this mean that we all now get to sing "Kumbya"?


No, it means I'm gonna let BigHorse come straighten your misguided butts out. I would not deprive him of the pleasure. Dear Lord you have certainly perverted this thread though...


Well from one pervert to another....HAPPY TAX DAY! :mrgreen:


Oh man! You always could out pervert me! Ya Perv!!
I'd rather be a fencepost in Texas than king of the world.

retch sweeny
 
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Re: "Hunting is a privilege, not a right"

Postby retch sweeny » Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:35 pm

Deebz wrote: Retch: I agree that neither hunting or fishing is a "constitutional right"... but I don't think that is the discussion. After having several conversations with some people who know a lot more of history and politics than I do, I've come to understand that the constitution doesn't really GIVE us any rights. It is designed to limit the government and PROTECT the rights we as people naturally have. I disagree that hunting/fishing are "priveleges". If the government sets regulations and limits on those activities; and our government is of the people, by the people, for the people; and I am definitely one of said 'people', then it is not other people allowing me to partake (aka: privelege)...


Correct. To understand what your rights are you must look to the bill of rights. Those right are enumerated as follows.

1. Freedom of Speech (Your free to talk about how you wish hunters were on the bill of rights)

2. Right to keep and bear arms. (great, so you can have a gun, this is so you can protect yourself from man)

3. Quartering of troop (outside the scope of this discussion)

4. Protection from unreasonable search and seizure (outside the scope of this discussion)

5. due process, double jeopardy, self-incrimination (outside the scope of this discussion)

6. Trial by jury and rights of the accused (outside the scope of this discussion)

7. Civil trial by jury. (outside the scope of this discussion)

8. Prohibition of excessive bail and cruel and unusual punishment (outside the scope of this discussion)

9. Protection of rights not specifically enumerated in the Constitution. (The ninth amendment is not a source of rights as such; it is simply a rule about how to read the Constitution.) You cant make up something you want to be a right and lump it under the 9th. Trust me, its been tried.

10. Powers of States and people. (This one comes close to being relevant to this discussion since all state regulate their own hunting laws. You should now that no state is void of hunting laws and regulations and seasons, etc. (See violator compact agreements)

If you must know, its argued that there are actually 34 individual rights contained in the 10 amendments. None of them include the right to hunt. If however, you want to hang your hat on the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as a way of saying that hunting is a right because it makes you happy and keeps you alive, you will want to know there are those that insist beer and medical marijuana would be included in that argument. (They are not)

Hunting is a privilege that each state can remove from any person (you can remove rights but since hunting is not a right, you can be prohibited from doing it)

If hunting were a basic human or constitutional right, (rather than the privilege that it actually is) states would not have the legal authority to remove your ability to engage in the privilege of hunting.

http://dnr.wi.gov/contact/wildlifecompactagreement.html

Perhaps this thread is an argument that hunting “Should” be a basic and constitutional human right. That is a different argument.

BigIron
 
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Re: "Hunting is a privilege, not a right"

Postby BigIron » Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:02 pm

Well, since BigHorse ain't here.

Retch, then by your argument, gun ownership is definitely a priviledge and not a right.

I would argue it is a right. That is being infringed by numerous unconstitutional laws.
I'd rather be a fencepost in Texas than king of the world.

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