"Hunting is a privilege, not a right"

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shaman
 
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Re: "Hunting is a privilege, not a right"

Postby shaman » Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:38 am

Why I say hunting is a natural right is that humans seem to be well suited for it. We were built to hunt. Without animal protein we would have never had the resources necessary to evolve as we have.

That is why I say the state has an obligation to maintain access to hunting. We all seem to agree that there was a need for the state or someone to step in 100+ years ago and start to control things. Deer were nearly extirpated from their original range. Okay. They did not necessarily have to let us start hunting again. We could live in a world where hunting is completely banned. The state wisely understood the need, based on the natural right of its citizens, to enjoy the freedom to hunt. That is why we have the system that we do.

Sport hunting, with all its elaborate rules, fees, and so on, funds this. Sport hunting is a privilege that the state has evolved in order to drive the economy of wildlife management.
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retch sweeny
 
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Re: "Hunting is a privilege, not a right"

Postby retch sweeny » Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:29 am

Kelory, yes a typo, there should have been a "t" at the end of can. Hunting is not a right. Gun ownership is a right. Where I can bear those arms keeps getting erroniously changed but I can keep them.

BigIron
 
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Re: "Hunting is a privilege, not a right"

Postby BigIron » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:56 am

retch sweeny wrote:Kelory, yes a typo, there should have been a "t" at the end of can. Hunting is not a right. Gun ownership is a right. Where I can bear those arms keeps getting erroniously changed but I can keep them.


Not necessarily Retch. You have to pass a background check to buy a gun now. If you don't pass it you can't buy it. And in some states you even have to have a license to own certain guns or guns at all. Not unlike a hunting license.

Sounds like your "right" to own guns is very similar to your "right" to hunt. You and I only have the "priviledge" of each... at the pleasure of the state.
I'd rather be a fencepost in Texas than king of the world.

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Deebz
 
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Re: "Hunting is a privilege, not a right"

Postby Deebz » Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:24 am

Good point... If I do not have a FOID card here in IL, I can't purchase any type of firearm. I can't even purchase ammunition for the firearms I already own. I also have to pay to get the FOID card.

I don't mind the background checks, regardless of whether or not it infringes on my right to keep and bear arms. I say this because it doesn't infringe on MY right. I'll pass a background check every time. The only people who would be kept from keeping and bearing arms are people who have been convicted of wrongdoing. While rights are God-given and we are inherently born with them, we are also have God-given free will. If a person abuses their free will to harm other people, I believe there are certain rights that they forfeit by doing so. I've just had too many encounters with people who are incapable of responsibly exercising their rights.
"When a hunter is in a tree stand with high moral values and with the proper hunting ethics and richer for the experience, that hunter is 20 feet closer to God." ~Fred Bear

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Big Horse
 
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Re: "Hunting is a privilege, not a right"

Postby Big Horse » Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:10 pm

I’m back! And it looks like you've been having a good discussion.

You weren’t arguing collective rights now were you Woodsy? Next you’ll be telling me it takes a village… :lol:

But seriously, the collective ownership of the game animals by the people of the State ends at the discretion of the animal. I hunt a mile from the state line, and Deebz hunts between me and that line at times. And I know for fact that many of those deer cross back and forth from being the “property” of Hoosiers to those of the Land of Lincoln.

Honestly, they’re simply being managed thru regulation and taxation by the State. I would argue they are the natural resource of the property they are standing on. If that is private property…they are in the property owner’s possession.

Shaman is correct, the United States Constitution does not grant us rights. It has, however, provided us with some protections of certain (not all) inalienable rights.

Retch, one does not need to look to the Bill of Rights to understand rights. The BOR did not grant us rights any more than the Constitution did originally. (The bill of rights were not part of the original Constitution they were added in 1791 and additional amendments have followed since then) You surely wouldn’t argue rights did not exist before 1791? Did I call you Shirley? :shock: …anyhow, the list you provided and other enumerations in the Constitution as it is today are protections of rights that exist simple from being. They were endowed by the Creator and they cannot be taken from you. They are inalienable.

Ever notice that the “enumerated rights” are limitations on government? They are not limitations on individuals, they are protections afforded to the individual restricting oppression of the government. That's becasue rights belong to the individual, not the collective. ;) That’s the crux of Obamacare. If health care is a right, how does Obamacare limit the government from infringing upon that right? There’s a $64,000.00 question.

So back on topic, rights exist by simply being, and they infer nothing upon another. Therein lays the natural limitation of one’s rights. When exercise of your right imposes upon another, you have exceeded its boundaries. That is the difference between reasonable limitations and anarchy.

As Bastiat pointed out, “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws...” While the original piece I posted gave credit to Jefferson for penning "...the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" in the Declaration of Independence, his original draft read “life, liberty and property”. But ultimately it is the “liberty” of ownership; “property”, that provides man with the capability of the “Pursuit” (hunt) to sustain “Life”.

Some are looking through narrow glasses. While it may be what has brought us here together, hunting is not limited to deer, or game animals, it is a quest, a search, the pursuit...
Live to Hunt, Hunt to Live.

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shaman
 
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Re: "Hunting is a privilege, not a right"

Postby shaman » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:43 am

You would think that deer and other game are the property of the property owner, but in this country we have a different way of looking at it. In essence the state holds the deer as being in its stewardship, held for the collective good. It dictates how and when the game can be taken. If you go to Europe, game is usually the property of the landowner or the property of the state, but the state leases the right to the landowner.
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JPH
 
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Re: "Hunting is a privilege, not a right"

Postby JPH » Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:47 am

shaman wrote:Why I say hunting is a natural right is that humans seem to be well suited for it. We were built to hunt. Without animal protein we would have never had the resources necessary to evolve as we have.

I'm still not cozy with you on this point, Shaman. The fact we are well suited to do something does not necessarily make it a right. I can come up with a host of things that we are well suited for that are not a good idea.

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Ohio farms
 
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Re: "Hunting is a privilege, not a right"

Postby Ohio farms » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:15 pm

So JPH, give us a short list of things that we are "well suited for that are not a good idea." They may be on my bucket list.
Keep life simple...if you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.

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JPH
 
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Re: "Hunting is a privilege, not a right"

Postby JPH » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:35 pm

Oh no you don't! I had to explain the Borat video, for gosh sake! There is no way I'm going to begin listing the things in my head.

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Ohio farms
 
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Re: "Hunting is a privilege, not a right"

Postby Ohio farms » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:03 pm

Yea, sometimes it's best to keep one's own thoughts to ourselves. (Could drinking beer be one of them?)
Keep life simple...if you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.

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