Give Indiana DNR A Piece Of Your Mind

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shaman
 
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Re: Give Indiana DNR A Piece Of Your Mind

Postby shaman » Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:37 am

I want you all to consider something. I can't say for sure that EHD did not kill off Andy's does. I can't say exactly what is the source of the problems in IL, WI, and even my own KY. What I can tell you is that I predicted something like this back a few years ago. My big fear then as now is that the economy was eventually going to start having an impact on deer hunting.

How does a bad economy affect deer hunting?

1) More unemployment means more idle men and hungry families
2) Less employment means less participation in the system of tagging and licenses
3) Less tax revenue means less money for enforcement.

Bottom line: the system breaks down.

Look, I've seen what one out of work jerk can do to my hunting. I ain't gonna say names, but somebody had an awful lot of hooves laying around his place. One year, I hardly saw a deer. Next year? He was gone, and the deer came back. I tried to call the CO, but he was too busy and we never quite connected. I heard similar stories on other ridges. Fact is, it does not take many guys to make the whole thing come apart.

In another instance, and this was years ago, the guy that was acting as my unofficial guide was also the local . . . well, the term used to be market hunter. Right out of Phillip Tome's playbook, this guy would fill your freezer for $15. Of course his county has one of the poorest official harvest records in the state. Always has. Always will.


This is a friend of a friend story, so you can take it for what it is worth. About 20 years ago, I fellow I knew was talking about things with his local CO. The fellow said the state's deer herd was just where they wanted it and that the herd acted as a buffer against starvation. If there was an economic downturn, the only thing the state needed to do was NOT add LE assets and the deer herd would feed the state and get it through the hardship. The story may be apocryphal, but it may give you an insight about how this all works. It is true: all you need to do is not add guys in the field in time of hardship, and the enforcement of game laws goes out the window.


My point here, is that it is probably not EHD, or the auto insurance cabal, aliens or cattle mutilators that are making the deer disappear. Furthermore, my guess is that law enforcement knows about the problem, the state officials know about the problem, and well . . . you see what is being done about it.
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shaman
 
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Re: Give Indiana DNR A Piece Of Your Mind

Postby shaman » Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:08 am

. . . and while we're on the subject of giving Indiana a piece of our mind, let me just say that as an Ohio resident, I found Indiana a very unfriendly place to hunt-- both deer and turkey. The attitude of the locals towards out-of-state hunters was miserable and it was reflected in the license fees and seasons. I have not hunted in Indiana in over 20 years, and when I had the chance to pick a place to buy property, I chose Kentucky over Indiana and Ohio. I have not spent a dime on hunting in Indiana since 1992, and doubt I ever will. This is coming from a guy who drives into Indiana several times a week, and could just as easily be living in Indiana as not.

If you are looking for a guy who voted with his wallet and his feet, you've got one. I hold no real bitterness to Hoosiers, but as soon as I retire, I'll be moving to Kentucky . I gather most Hoosiers could care less, and it is good to know the feeling is mutual.
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MZS
 
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Re: Give Indiana DNR A Piece Of Your Mind

Postby MZS » Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:11 am

When they give out bonus tags for $2 each, without limit, as they did in my backyard in the last year we had any decent deer numbers around here, one need not poach. I knew of guys legally taking 6 or more deer. And even with low numbers this season and last, they were giving out $12 bonus tags, but at least there was a limit to the number (in the thousands for our unit). At some point it all does not even matter much as the numbers get so low that all the tags in the world do not help. There were many unfilled tags this year by us.

So yes, I would agree that a few poachers can really wreck a herd, but too many legal tags given out can do the same, and there is not a thing one can do to stop it except to contact your DNR and let them know what is up as soon as possible so they can get the quotas adjusted for the next season. And let them know of people you may know that have given up on the sport - that gets their attention since less hunters = less revenue.

With respect to poachers, report them. Most states have a 24/7 anonymous tip line.

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shaman
 
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Re: Give Indiana DNR A Piece Of Your Mind

Postby shaman » Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:17 am

With respect to poachers, report them. Most states have a 24/7 anonymous tip line.



Having been through it, and through it a lot over the years, that may or may not be a solution. You can't just call up and say you got skunked this year and you suspect a poacher. Look at Andy's plight. His property is maybe not being poached directly. However, somebody next door might be taking a deer or two a month, year round. The problem and the solution is probably much more subtle.

Look at it this way: if deer are being poached here and there throughout the county, the remaining deer will just disperse and thin out to fill in the gaps. The source of the problem might be even miles away from Andy, and he sees it in a big way from one season to the next. The doe disperse in the summer, and they find underutilized habitat and move in. The bucks follow. The cycle repeats. All a guy needs is a salt-block and a .22 and a whole family can be fed off what gets taken in May and June. You can set one up under a light in the back yard. Meanwhile a guy like Andy thinks aliens have come down and carted off all his deer.

I'll throw another thing into it: otherwise law abiding citizens seem to turn a blind eye to poaching when it's going to feed a hungry family. Even when it gets to the magistrate, you probably are not going to see much more than a small fine. As a result, it ends up being a losing deal for LE to pursue.

Now for the kicker. I've called the tip line before. 3 years later the CO showed up. He'd been out at the local dam, looking for terrorists, and was just getting back to me. These guys were stretched out thin before 2008. Now, with record low workforce participation and record high food stamp enrollment, do you really think calling a 24 hour tip line is going to clean up an endemic poaching problem? Grandpa used to say that you don't kick a three-legged dog for running slow-- know what I mean?
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MZS
 
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Re: Give Indiana DNR A Piece Of Your Mind

Postby MZS » Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:37 am

I can not speak for Indiana, but in WI, I emailed the state deer biologist and she was very receptive to my input. I gave her some numbers like, I was out X times and saw Y deer, or I have driven from 9-10 PM on highway ___ from ___ to ___ on Mon and Wed night all of this fall and have seen ___ deer. This biologist thanked me for the input and provided the name of the local biologist to contact. Also, I was told by someone selling licenses that in the unit next to us, doe tags were not given out in response to input by hunters (this may or may not be true), but I am guessing there is some truth to it. As I say, providing info like this, and even giving a word of thanks and appreciation, sure can not hurt.

As far as reporting poachers, I would say keep trying. As I understand, Indiana even offers up to a several hundred dollar reward.

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kellory
 
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Re: Give Indiana DNR A Piece Of Your Mind

Postby kellory » Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:47 pm

This sounds good, but is completely false. "- that gets their attention since less hunters = less revenue."

by the numbers. Let us assume there are ten deer total to be killed, in a given area, and each tag (just for the math is $10.
There could be 1 hunter with 10 tags for $100. total, or 100 hunter with ten tags each for $10 tags each, for 10 thousand dollars,
There will still only be ten deer killed in that area, because that's all there are. The number of permits available determines the profit. because most of those tags go unfilled. they could print a million tags, and it would not effect the number of deer taken, just the profit.

Yeah, a cheaper tag makes a repeat more likely, and a more expensive tag retards sales, but it is the number of tags sold to each hunter that matters to the bottom line, not the number of hunters.

or in other words....they can sell all the chances the market will bear, but there are only so many door prizes.
The only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker is observation. All the same data is present for both. The rest is understanding what you are seeing.

MZS
 
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Re: Give Indiana DNR A Piece Of Your Mind

Postby MZS » Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:49 pm

You might be right Kellory - maybe they do not worry so much about losing hunters from a strict revenue standpoint but I do I think they do value keeping hunters, at least in my state of WI. In WI, the DNR does all kinds of perks to get new young hunters into the sport. Youth hunts, cheap licenses, and free doe tags for youth. And they now have $5 first time deer gun and archery licenses for all ages.

Bowriter
 
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Re: Give Indiana DNR A Piece Of Your Mind

Postby Bowriter » Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:10 pm

LOL-The most difficult part of deer management is getting a hunter to understand the difference between preception and fact. What is perceived is not always what is fact. :lol:

luvhuntin
 
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Re: Give Indiana DNR A Piece Of Your Mind

Postby luvhuntin » Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:51 pm

I need to clarify something I hope i did`nt give anyone the perception that i did not see deer. I saw plenty of small bucks and small does all year. I had decided this year i would buy less tags and hold out for deer that had a year or two more age that what i have shot the last few years I was`nt entirely trophy hunting just trying to get more meat per tag besides it helped extend my season a bit I hate to throw the 5 tags i bought away but tomorrow is the end of the late m/l season and unless i call in sick i`m not getting it done this year.

The wife told me i should buy a late antlerless tag just so we have one set of inside tenders this year. I hate gutting pregnant does with fully formed fetuses though.the Only time my stomach turns inside out.

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