Synthetic scents and lures

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Everyday Hunter
 
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Synthetic scents and lures

Postby Everyday Hunter » Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:36 pm

I've had some success with deer urine, as all of us probably have, but we read lots of conflicting information about urine-based scent. My latest brainstorm is that if a really good synthetic came out, it would take over the market.

Why?
1. Quality control -- When you buy urine-based scent you can never be sure how the urine was collected, and whether the handling of it is consistent. I've even heard that some producers bottle it with various brand names. If that's true you can never be sure that you're buying the same thing, even if you're buying the same brand and label. With synthetic scents, on the other hand, it would be much easier to produce the same thing every time under laboratory conditions.
2. Shelf life -- Some people think that urine-based scents must be kept in brown glass in order to "keep," but we all know that much of it comes in various kinds of plastic bottles, which some say cause it to deteriorate. I really don't know what to believe about that, but it seems to me that synthetics should always be the same unless subjected to high heat, contamination, etc., and last much longer.
3. CWD -- With the threat of CWD, I wouldn't be surprised if at some point the states begin regulating the collection of deer urines, because if deer farms get infected with CWD they will be a real incubator for the disease. This could make urine-based scents go way up in price.

The questions I have are:
Are there any other reasons synthetics would have an advantage over natural urine-based scents? 
Have any of you had any expereince with synthetic scents?
What brands of synthetics are you aware of?
Do you know of anyone who makes their own deer lure?
Any other thoughts on synthetics will be appreciated.

Steve

DeanoZ
 
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RE: Synthetic scents and lures

Postby DeanoZ » Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:57 am

Interesting topic for sure Everyday hunter....Woods Walker has spoken extensively about the need to regulate the scent industry and I'm certain he'll have an interesting and informative perspective on this topic.  My thoughts are fairly basic...I was unaware a synthetic alternative was available or could even be realistically reproduced.?  I'm certain someone can synthetically reproduce the smell of deer urine, however if I'm not mistaken, its not the scent so much as what I believe are referred to as the pherimones contained in the deer urine that attract?  How you would synthetically reproduce that is beyond me and I'll defer to the scientifically inclined in that regard.

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Woods Walker
 
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RE: Synthetic scents and lures

Postby Woods Walker » Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:33 am

Yes this is a good topic. I've thought about the same thing myself.
 
Number one, it's my opinion that any success that one has with urine lures is NOT from the urine itself (which is no longer urine anyway by the time you get it, but in fact urea) but from the phermones that are in it.
 
Goose made a real good point in another thread about the urine not getting any of that particular animal's hormones until AFTER it had passed through the sex organs. This makes perfect dense, because urine that is in the bladder is sterile.
 
So.....if we can reason that the "active ingredient" that makes urine a good lure are the HORMONES/PHERMONES, then one would also conclude that if those hormones/phermones can be isolated or made synthetically, then we don't really need that smelly, nasty sour urine in the first place, as it's only a carrier.
 
Makes sense to me.
 
As I and others have stated before, we've had just as much success using our OWN urine is scrapes, as the commercial stuff. The only reason I can come up with for this, is that even if a deer can tell that my urine is not a deer's it doesn't care, because my male hormones are the same, and my hormones are those of an "outsider", hence the scrape being hit. If I were a woman, then my results may even have been even more dramatic. I also believe that if you could collect urine from female domestic animals that were in estrous, that the results would be every bit as good, if not better, than from commercial bottled urines.
 
This is by no means a scientfic statement, just a "what else can it be" type conclusion. I've had it work often enough that it ISN'T a fluke.
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Adam C
 
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RE: Synthetic scents and lures

Postby Adam C » Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:56 am

    My experience has been that mature bucks are mostly put on alert when they smell this blend of chemicles, confusung them, plus making it diffucult to move in your tree. It seems that bucks up to 2.5 yrs. are the more curious of the deer herd. I personally do not like to walk around the area I am getting ready to hunt, to put out a product that may lessen my chances of taking a good buck, a buck that may have come through my area anyway, with proper timing & windage. Now calling, thats another topic.

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RE: Synthetic scents and lures

Postby paulie » Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:27 am

There was indeed a product on the market a few years back by, "Hawgs LTD" called, "Buck fever synthetic" deer lure! They had, "pre-post" rut (buck) urine, a "peak" rut urine, and "BF gland" (BF= Buck fever). I dont know how well it worked (or didnt work) but, I do know it was (supposed to be) "fully synyhetic" ( I guess that means "no natural ingredients"). I didnt notice it on the shelves last season, I dont know if they still make it or not.

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RE: Synthetic scents and lures

Postby Wolf River Hunter » Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:00 pm

Just sat through a seminar by a wildlife bioligist at a Whitetail Classic. He referenced a study where 4 different scents were applied to scrapes and bucks interest levels were measured. Buck urine got the most attention followed by human urine. The big surprise was that "New Car Scent" finished third ahead of doe urine. Not sure if this guy had some sort of agenda but he was definitely anti-urine scents.

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RE: Synthetic scents and lures

Postby Woods Walker » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:17 pm

ORIGINAL: Wolf River Hunter

Just sat through a seminar by a wildlife bioligist at a Whitetail Classic. He referenced a study where 4 different scents were applied to scrapes and bucks interest levels were measured. Buck urine got the most attention followed by human urine. The big surprise was that "New Car Scent" finished third ahead of doe urine. Not sure if this guy had some sort of agenda but he was definitely anti-urine scents.


I don't know where the fellow was coming from either, but what you stated that he said coincides with what my experience has been also, except for the new car scent! (Which I've never tried!)
 
I have had FAR better luck with deer reacting to my urine that to all the "doe-in-heat" stuff I used over the years. In fact, I can only say that I knew doe urine to work but 3 times in all the years I used it, and that was with scent sticks, and NOT the liquid urine. I've never had that work.
 
And for what it's worth, here in Illinois, there's a number of deer hunters who SWEAR by using vanilla extract as a deer lure. Mel Johnson, the Peoria, Illinois native who still owns the record for the #1 Typical P&Y Whitetail in the world says that he was using vanilla extract when he shot that magnificent animal back in the 60's.
 
Go figger......and no scent-loc either! Who'd a thunk it? [;)] [:D]
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Everyday Hunter
 
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RE: Synthetic scents and lures

Postby Everyday Hunter » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:52 pm

Human pee? Vanilla extract? You just destroyed the whole scent/urine industry! O'bama couldn't have done it any faster! [:D][:D][:D]

Steve 
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Woods Walker
 
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RE: Synthetic scents and lures

Postby Woods Walker » Sun Mar 01, 2009 4:42 pm

ORIGINAL: Everyday Hunter

Human pee? Vanilla extract? You just destroyed the whole scent/urine industry! O'bama couldn't have done it any faster! [:D][:D][:D]

Steve 

 
OMG! Call me pigheaded, opinionated, and ornery, but PLEASE don't compare me to a MARXIST!!!!  I DO have my limits!  [:D]
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Wolf River Hunter
 
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RE: Synthetic scents and lures

Postby Wolf River Hunter » Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:20 am

Half the guys in the booths at the show probably wanted to come over and kill this guy because he touched on a few subjects where he tried to inject some science to dispell the anecdotal "evidence" that the gadget companies rely upon to sell their products. All the scents they dumped into the scrapes caused reactions from the bucks, they all scored higher than doing nothing at all, so basically whatever a person dumps into a scrape will get a reaction from a buck. It doesn't need to be an $8 1 ounce bottle of scent, a hunter will have the same amount of success using a couple of drops from a $2 bottle of Walmart ammonia. According to him the phermones are gone long before a hunter could ever get them onto the ground and the only thing left is the ammonia. He was a popular guy after his presentation so I didn't get a chance to ask him what he thought a synthetic scent would do but I'm guessing if a synthetic like New Car Smell worked, than a deer themed synthetic would have merrit.

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