How do I

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Gafrage
 
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How do I

Postby Gafrage » Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:02 pm

How do I reasonably convince my neighbors to think about harvesting bucks of at least 3.5 years or better?

I now hunt roughly 20 miles "as the crow flies" south of D&D's Property on Tiger Ridge.

I hunted in Marinette County most of my hunting years.  Well, from 12-23.  My first hunt in Waupaca County was when I was 24, alone.  I've hunted this land by myself.  This year, my dad will be joining me for at least opening weekend.  I've seen lots of Big Bucks, 140 or better the 2nd weekend hunting this land.  My first year hunting this property in Waupaca County I shot, wounded and did not retrieve a 10 pointer, around 150-160, which was trailing an 8 pointer, which was trailing a doe.  My neighbor harvested the deer.

I bow hunt the land, and have passed up multiple bucks that were 2.5 year old and 3.5 year old, 8 and 10 pointers, but only around 120 or 130 inches.  I had a 120 inch 10 point 2.5 year old that I was hoping would make it through the 2005 Gun Season, no such luck.  I don't consider myself a trophy hunter, but that's what I hunt for.  I am in an EAB unit, and have been pretty much since it's been around in WI (I've bowhunting this land since I started bowhunting around the age of 16, when I could drive there by myself).  There are close to 97 deer per square mile in the unit I hunt.  I believe every bit of the DNR's estimates there.  I see between 30-40 deer on opening day.  Up to 60 for the first two days of the WI Gun season.  Now, we (my neighbors and myself) do are fair share of harvesting does around the area...however, the food source is SO RICH that the yearlings get bred, and have twins more times than not.  The people around me shoot spikes, 3 pointers, whatever, pretty much if it's brown it's down.  I can't tell them what to shoot and what not to shoot, but the potential of getting a big buck from my area is high, and could be a lot higher if people had some standards around me.  With the food sources around me...we could easily hold around 150 deer per square mile, so there is definitely no shortage of food.  There are no major highways by me, so the majority of the bucks make it to the age of 3.5...granted they survive the WI Deer hunting season at the age of 2.5.

Do I print up a bunch of fliers, do I go knocking door to door, and talk to them in person?  Have any of you tried to start something?  If I had the money I'd buy the 500 acres from all of the people, and manage it how I'd like.  That's not likely though, so I'm looking for some options as to how to approach the situation.  I think what most people don't realize is that 1 or 2 years without harvesting a "buck" can make HUGE payoffs in the end, especially with the food sources, cover, bedding areas and pretty much everything a big buck could like all within a 1-2 square mile range.  Thanks for any advice in advance.

schlupis
 
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RE: How do I

Postby schlupis » Tue Oct 07, 2008 10:32 pm

Hello and welcome to the forums. First off this is always a touchy subject for some landowners for some of the reasons you touched on like having people trying to tell them what to kill and what not to kill.
 
I hunt in Waupaca county aswell and know there are some giants there. I would just try and strike up friendly conversations with the landowners when you see them out and about, ( I would shy away from knocking on their doors it might put them on the offensive right away). But when you see them out and about let them know you hunt on the property near them and were wondering what kind of deer they have been seeing, mostly does or if they have seen any big bucks, and then go from there feel them out a little.
 
As you are talking let them know you are holding out for a larger buck and are killing does and passing on the smaller bucks, they might say that they are also looking for a big buck then you can go from there with asking if they shoot only 8 point bucks with 16 inch spreads or better etc.  I dont always like to mentions age classes to people especially some of the old timers they might look at you like you are crazy wondering how you know how old a deer is. They know what big bucks are and dont much care about the age just because they might not be into age class judging like you and I are. ( just my experience).
 
Most of the people that I have come in contact with there through hunting are all looking for a monster very few are into killing the smaller bucks, so it might be easier than you think in getting them to try and manage their land. From my experience some people dont know how to get started until sombody helps them, like you. I still here a lot of the once a spike always a spike there though so you might start there that worked for me once I convinced a guy we hunt with not to shoot spikes he always shot everyone he saw because he thought he was helping by culling a inferior deer...
 
Just remember people are always receptive to some change as long as it is not forced on them.. Just take your time you wont change their mind right away it may take some time. They might see you taking a big buck every year and wonder why you are always killing big bucks and they arnt. That is how we got some of the guys from northern wis to change..
 
Good luck with this and let us know how you do..
 

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JPH
 
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RE: How do I

Postby JPH » Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:25 am

Maybe I am mis-reading your post, but I do not understand why you would want to do this. You say you are not a trophy hunter but that is exactly what you appear to be, and it is what you hunt for. From the sounds of things, you are having no problems seeing big bucks in the age class you are asking others to manage for anyway. 
 
My advice? Shoot more does and encourage others to do the same. Manage your habitat for better cover and encourage others to do the same. As far as bucks go, set your own standards and encourage others to do the same.
 
If there was an age structure issue, I would suggest that you campaign to protect yearlings, but that does not appear to be your problem. Setting limits on others beyond that is very tricky and possibly selfish.

Squirrelhawker
 
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RE: How do I

Postby Squirrelhawker » Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:42 am

Yeah, I'm with JPH here. Count your blessings. I'm in a new area, it's not that large, and my chances of seeing lot's of 130's and larger is not good. I would trade with you in a second.
 
You can talk to people, and they can talk to you, until you're all blue in the face but everyone is gonna make their own decision when something comes wandering down the trail. The definition of ethics is: what you do when no one is watching. [;)]

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shaman
 
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RE: How do I

Postby shaman » Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:02 am

If I were you, I'd stop worrying what happens on the other guys' property. Make your little piece of heaven as inviting as possible and let the neighbors do what they do best: act as beaters.  I have good rack potential in my area, and as long I limit access to my own property, the deer all run to my place on Opening Day. The other properties are filled with the Orange Army, running their ATV's and playing radios and such. They drive the deer over to my place and I just sit in the stand and wait.
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Woods Walker
 
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RE: How do I

Postby Woods Walker » Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:03 am

I also agree with JPH, especially on the doe kill.
 
Other than that, if you have antler lust that bad, then I suggest this:
 
Either buy your own land and manage it like you want, save up enough money to go to the game ranch of your choice and shoot the biggest deer you can afford, or get the law changed so that everyone must follow it.
 
I can tell you this...if I were a land owner, and someone who did NOT pay the property taxes on it came to tell me how I should manage it, they'd be shown the door in a nano-second, especially for something like this. I'm NOT supposed to kill a legal deer ON MY LAND, so that YOU can kill it later?  LOL!
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Gafrage
 
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RE: How do I

Postby Gafrage » Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:51 am

ORIGINAL: JPH

Maybe I am mis-reading your post, but I do not understand why you would want to do this. You say you are not a trophy hunter but that is exactly what you appear to be, and it is what you hunt for.
 

When I say I'm not a trophy hunter, I am using that in the context of not harvesting any P&Y or B&C Bucks in my young hunting career so far.  Yes, that is what I am looking for. 

I appreciate some of your comments, and I'll tread lightly, as I figured that's probably the only way to do it.  All I can do is hope.

Thanks guys.


Also, I'm not interested in going to a ranch, I like to hunt whitetails that are wild, but it's nice to see some of those deer make it to 3.5 years old and 4.5 years old.  That's all I'm saying.  It's not that if the deer makes it to that age class, he's going to walk past me.  He could be up to 10 miles away from me during the rut, or the following year.  All I guess I was trying to say, is letting some of these deer make it to even 2.5 years old, they have big racks at that point and time.  Which is when most of them are being harvested.  Putting 1 more year under their belt, might just add 30+ inches, in some cases more than that to their rack.

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OHhunter
 
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RE: How do I

Postby OHhunter » Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:36 am

ORIGINAL:

Do I print up a bunch of fliers, do I go knocking door to door, and talk to them in person?  Have any of you tried to start something?  If I had the money I'd buy the 500 acres from all of the people, and manage it how I'd like.  That's not likely though, so I'm looking for some options as to how to approach the situation.  I think what most people don't realize is that 1 or 2 years without harvesting a "buck" can make HUGE payoffs in the end, especially with the food sources, cover, bedding areas and pretty much everything a big buck could like all within a 1-2 square mile range.  Thanks for any advice in advance.

 
With the popularity of QDM and the push to pass on younger bucks, I think most anyone who has read an outdoor magizine or watched any hunting show understands that you must "let them go so they can grow".  What your missing is that not everyone is out there hunting trophies.  Hunting means more to most than a record set of antlers, and their name in a book.  I don't know of anyone who would enjoy having trophy hunting/management pushed on them.  Sounds like you have a great spot to hunt with all the right ingredents, maybe instead of pushing for your nieghbors to accept your ideals, you should worry about the things on your property that you can control.  Harvest more does, pass on young bucks and make your habitat more inviting and benificial. 
Brad

HUNT HARD, SHOOT STRAIGHT, CLEAN KILL APOLOGIZE TO NO ONE

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JPH
 
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RE: How do I

Postby JPH » Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:00 am

ORIGINAL: Gafrage

ORIGINAL: JPH

Maybe I am mis-reading your post, but I do not understand why you would want to do this. You say you are not a trophy hunter but that is exactly what you appear to be, and it is what you hunt for.
 

When I say I'm not a trophy hunter, I am using that in the context of not harvesting any P&Y or B&C Bucks in my young hunting career so far.  Yes, that is what I am looking for. 


 
So in other words, you are not yet a "successful" trophy hunter, but a trophy hunter nonetheless. No problem, to each his own.
 
But now that we are a little more clear on your definition, I realize that I cannot be of much help to you. I know a bit about Quality Deer Mgt. but next to nothing about Trophy Deer Mgt. From what I understand, TDM requires massive amounts of land and/or high fences, supplemental feeding and an extreemly aggressive doe harvest. It may be an uphill battle, but I wish you luck.

Smoothbore
 
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RE: How do I

Postby Smoothbore » Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:20 am

Just an FYI I had a guy do that to me when I started hunting my property. Told me that they don't harvest does or young bucks and that I'd better not either. Just to let you know that guy came within a pubic hair of getting his butt kicked and I let him no that in no uncertain terms. Needless to say he hasn't made any more suggestions.

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