Hunting with Dogs

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tbone3
 
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RE: Hunting with Dogs

Postby tbone3 » Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:06 am

Oh yeah and one more thing what gives you the right to call someone uneducated.  You know nothing about this man, and probally never will.  If you can't have a civil discussion about a topic then maybe you should not even try. 

hunter480
 
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RE: Hunting with Dogs

Postby hunter480 » Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:42 am

ORIGINAL: tbone3

Ok deerhunter first the deer do not die from being exhausted.  Like I have said I have been doing this for 14 years and not once have I even heard of a deer dieing while being chased by dogs, unless it was shot.  And even though it does happen occasionally, (dogs going on someone elses property), I have been stand hunting and had a pack of dogs come running through chasing a deer and once they were gone one of the biggest bucks that I have ever killed stepped out.  And if you paid attention to what has been written, more often than not the deer will get away from the dogs and not even be shot at.  Like I said in my 14 years I have never heard of a deer dieing from being chased, if anything the dogs get tired and give up on the deer first.

 
I have to respectfully disagree. When any wild animal, such as white-tail deer are pushed too hard, they very well may die.
 
In years past, many outdoor writers mistakenly made comments about deer being lazy, therefore, nearly always taking the path of least resistance when moving. The truth is, they`re conserving energy. Unlike the hound you`re pushing deer with, white-tail deer don`t have a regular, substantial diet, nor shelter from the elements, nor protection from predators. The stress from all these things, and more, drain the animals energy reserves, making it essential that they conserve energy whenever possible. Most knowledgeable hunters understand, and readily accept, that bucks can be left vulnerable after the rigors of the rut, because they become exhausted chasing and breeding does. Depending on the circumstances of the hunt, the dogs, and the area, deer can certainly be pushed to the point of complete exhaustion, and even die after being chased by dogs.
 
Of course you wouldn`t see it, especially if the animal escapes, it will die in thick cover. You`d never have a way of knowing.

bckklr
 
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RE: Hunting with Dogs

Postby bckklr » Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:43 am

theres a big difference between a rabbit & a deer! where do you live ?have you ever chased deer withdogs ?see here in tn its not legal ,but the laws not enforced a lot either so we have many deer runners in our area & ive seen the impact 1st hand & will see it again this year. a dog has a stronger lung system than a deer .you ever wondered why a deer runs a short distance then stops? its the lungs dogs can run for miles when a deer cant, it can die from stress & exhaustion whats fair about that ?a dog can smell hear see as equal to a deer (makes it hard to hide) ,also the guys around here dump there dogs let them run the deer off the property you are hunting !then get on cbs with each other & drive around lookin for the deer that there dogs are running, then when the deer jumps the road or runs across farmer jons feild they shoot it out the truck window ,then drive out in farmer jons feild & pick up there dead exhausted deer. ive even had one of these hunters tell me how the meat tasted different on a deer that has had to run & run & run & run from the dogs. ive also had a group of these dog runners knock down one of the gates on one of my hunting properties twice so they could get there deer out of a feild that i lease every year now wheres the ethics in all that !?
 
 
mr ww hope this helps some
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Sailfish
 
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RE: Hunting with Dogs

Postby Sailfish » Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:22 pm

ORIGINAL: tbone3

Sailfish I am not saying that someone that is hunting there own land and shoots a deer that someone's dogs has ran on their land is unethical.  That person has the right to shot the deer if they want too I mean it is their own land.  I was refering to the hunters that will sit by the side of someone elses house and shoot the deer if it comes through the owners yard.  (Just an example: I am sitting beside a person's house on the side of the road and the dogs are coming my way running a deer, the deer comes out and runs through the person's yard, I shoot at the deer right beside their house.)  Their are hunters that hunt around here that have been known to do that.  I hope that my reply has clarified this for you.

 
Ok I wasn't clear I had it backwards on what you were saying.
 
Not sure about unethical thoiugh, but it seems it may be against the law hunting too close to a residence, I wouldn't doubt if there were some laws against it.
 
I live in FL, they dog hunt here. They even have dog hunts on management areas. I used to be against it 100% years ago. I am now unfazed. Folks use all kinds of animals to take game, not sure why a deer would be any different. To each his own. Also, if you dog hunt in areas that are next to areas that don't allow dog hunt you end up with a nice herd [;)]
"Go as far as you can see; when you get there, you'll be able to see farther."

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deerhunter713
 
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RE: Hunting with Dogs

Postby deerhunter713 » Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:17 pm

Oh yeah and one more thing what gives you the right to call someone uneducated.


When someone states "Doesn't sound much different than groups driving deer." and they can't tell the difference between humans driving deer and dogs trailing and running deer based on a scent trail, then I feel compelled to state the obvious...they are uneducated.  My right to state my opinion is guaranteed by the First Amendment of the Constitution.

Dogs will run deer until the deer is dead, that is a fact...not an opinion.  This is why dogs that are running deer are shot up in this part of the country...why don't you bring your deer running dogs up here and let them run a deer across my hunting property?  We'll see how well they track with a slug through the boiler room.

In your original post, you expected to "catch some slack for this".  Now be a man and take it.  You posed a question about unethical hunting practices on a forum that is generally made up of ethical hunters who respect the animal which they are pursuing.  I feel passionate about my view on this form of herding and killing; it is not hunting.  To call it hunting or call yourself a hunter is a disgrace to the sport of hunting and to hunters in general.

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tbone3
 
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RE: Hunting with Dogs

Postby tbone3 » Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:44 pm

Ok in response to hunter480 I have to say, you are entitled to your opinion and I can see your point.  But like I said in all my experience I have never seen it or heard of it, doesn't mean that it has not happened.  But in all fairness have you ever seen or heard of a deer die from being chased by dogs?  If you have then I stand corrected.
 
In response to bckklr, it sounds like to me that you have some very unethical hunters in your area.  I would never just drop my dogs off somewhere that they are not supposed to be.  And as for the whole shooting the deer out the truck window I think that is a total act of a sorry person that has no respect for the whole aspect of hunting.  I have never done that and never will.  And the fact that they knocked down your gate, I can understand your opinion about hunting with dogs.  But it is like I have said it is those kind of so called hunters that give all the rest of us that use dogs a bad rep.  All I can say is that if your local gamewarden won't do anything about it then maybe you need to take another route.  But don't let what others do form your opinion about all of us.

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tbone3
 
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RE: Hunting with Dogs

Postby tbone3 » Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:55 pm

Ok deerhunter I can understand your opinion on the whole issue.  But each person has their own way of doing things, that does not mean that you have to make threats to shoot people's dogs.  And yes you are entitled to say what you want, but noone is saying anything bad about you.  Anyway you can think what you want about the method of hunting, but there is no need to start any kind of name calling arguement about it. 

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passin through
 
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RE: Hunting with Dogs

Postby passin through » Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:47 pm

ORIGINAL: deerhunter713

Oh yeah and one more thing what gives you the right to call someone uneducated.


When someone states "Doesn't sound much different than groups driving deer." and they can't tell the difference between humans driving deer and dogs trailing and running deer based on a scent trail, then I feel compelled to state the obvious...they are uneducated.  My right to state my opinion is guaranteed by the First Amendment of the Constitution.

Dogs will run deer until the deer is dead, that is a fact...not an opinion.  This is why dogs that are running deer are shot up in this part of the country...why don't you bring your deer running dogs up here and let them run a deer across my hunting property?  We'll see how well they track with a slug through the boiler room.

In your original post, you expected to "catch some slack for this".  Now be a man and take it.  You posed a question about unethical hunting practices on a forum that is generally made up of ethical hunters who respect the animal which they are pursuing.  I feel passionate about my view on this form of herding and killing; it is not hunting.  To call it hunting or call yourself a hunter is a disgrace to the sport of hunting and to hunters in general.


I believe tbone is doing just that.  Doing very well for himself IMO as far as a level headed defense of his posts.  Nowhere does he call names or threaten property.  All in all he has not called a spade a spade as of yet.  I won't either because I've been down this road before and name calling does no good nor does trying to educate someone who is so passionatly against you.  Reguardless of what you KNOW to be true sometimes it just doesn't pay to preach[:D] 



I will mention a couple things though:
tbone did not mention an older method of using hounds that is still in use as well.  This is the method in which only a couple hounds are turned loose in a given area to basically increase movement of the game (stirring the pot per se) here  the standers sit all day and shoot as they see walking or running deer they have a clear shot at.  They do not leave the stand until the day is over and someone comes around to get them.  This method is in lots of old hunting books for deer and even african game.

As far as not calling it hunting ....well I guess that might be a surprise to some considering the american hound dog has been a part of this country's hunting tradition since the first folks hit the woods.  (and even further back than that in the old world) That dog has been a friend, a protector and a fellow provider to the families larder since way back, but he ain't a hunter ....I guess am not either[:D]  But I eat good and so does my family and so does the folks in my church who need a little extra meat, so also do the 16 head of deer hounds in the kennels my great grand father built.


Sure we have our problem folks but so do other forms of hunting as well...80 yard bow shots, quartering to shots, 500yd rifle shots ----all taken by guys who drug out thier repective weapon the week before season.  ( been there- tracked that --with a dog)  I am not saying that you can't say what you feel but as the old saying goes....people that live in glass houses should not toss rocks......and nobodys perfect.

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Woods Walker
 
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RE: Hunting with Dogs

Postby Woods Walker » Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:23 pm

ORIGINAL: bckklr

theres a big difference between a rabbit & a deer where do you live have you ever chased deer withdogs see here in tn its not legal but the laws not enforced a lot either so we have many deer runners in our area & ive seen the impact 1st hand & will see it again this year a dog has a stronger lung system than a deer you ever wondered why a deer runs a short distance then stops its the lungs dogs can run for miles when a deer cant it can die from stress & exhaustion whats fair about that a dog can smell hear see as equal also the guys around here dump there dogs let them run the deer off the property you are hunting then get on cbs with each other & drive around lookin for the deer that there dogs are running then when the deer jumps the road or runs across farmer jons feild they shoot it out the truck window then drive out in farmer jons feild & pick up there dead exhausted deer ive even had one of these hunters tell me how the meat tasted different on a deer that has had to run & run & run & run from the dogs ive also had a group of these dog runners knock down one of the gates on one of my hunting properties twice so they could get there deer out of a feild that i lease every year now wheres the ethics in all that

 
Can you please edit your post with some punctuation? It's pretty well unreadable as it is, and I'd like to respond to it. Thanks......

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buckhunter21
 
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RE: Hunting with Dogs

Postby buckhunter21 » Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:38 pm

This seems to be a pretty hot topic...IMO, I agree with JPH and the few others on here.  If it's legal down south and it's what works, all the power to you.  But then again I would not want it to come up north.  Personally I can't see any fun in it.  I like the challenge of scouting out my spots, sitting in a tree stand in silence and trying to fool a Whitetail.  I can see a lot of problems with dogs crossing lines, etc., and that I think would get some landowners' blood boiling.  I know up here, as was stated earlier, they let the coon dogs out and they go everywhere.  It happens in the middle of the night so unless you have a trail camera out you never know when it happens or who's doing it.  Then again you look at pheasant or grouse hunting and they all use dogs to scare some birds up...Kind of the same thing I would imagine but I guess I just don't have any interest in doing it ever.  Also, the use of buckshot has been talked about greatly here as well.  If you have a clean running shot at a deer that's close, that's fine, but it's the shots that hunter's take that are far away, or running in thick brush that may cause an issue.  Then again, I'm sure there are hunters that don't use dogs that take unethical shots with their firearms and bows!

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