Reactions to King Buck Story

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GrandView
 
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Re: Reactions to King Buck Story

Postby GrandView » Wed May 25, 2011 9:58 am

Jay wrote:.......just a two bit respnse from B&C and that fair chace article that prooves my point to a (T).


Uh.......no, it proves their point.

It's becoming increasingly obvious you have no point.

Jay
 
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Re: Reactions to King Buck Story

Postby Jay » Wed May 25, 2011 10:45 am

Yep you are correct GV. That should stroke your ego and keep you going. I must say you are an amusing fellow. You and Marc are very intereting indeed to talk with, and I do mean that. You both form conclusions before you have the facts. You really are to easy to out wit with your same sorry arguments without seeing what your dealing with. Now its your turn to chop down every sentence that I wrote and come back with your response of nothing but opinion without truth. Good luck with that. Again my doors are open, Thanks Jay

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Marc Anthony
 
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Re: Reactions to King Buck Story

Postby Marc Anthony » Wed May 25, 2011 1:09 pm

Jay wrote:Yep you are correct GV. That should stroke your ego and keep you going. I must say you are an amusing fellow. You and Marc are very intereting indeed to talk with, and I do mean that. You both form conclusions before you have the facts. You really are to easy to out wit with your same sorry arguments without seeing what your dealing with. Now its your turn to chop down every sentence that I wrote and come back with your response of nothing but opinion without truth. Good luck with that. Again my doors are open, Thanks Jay


Jay, your character is becoming more and more transparent with each and every post. This article began with personal attacks and you continue to attack each and every person who won't agree with you.

When I spoke with you over the phone, you were all for getting "both sides of the story", yet when the other side even begins a to bring forth information explaining the response by B&C, you begin a negative attack. Even though I went out of my way to attempt to get your head panel scored, I didn't get so much as a "thanks" from you because I didn't side with your way of thinking. FYI, I was really close into convincing the B&C to have your head panel scored but I believe the negative publicity was so ruthless, it deemed a direct response from the people in charge.

I spoke with Ron Boucher of Vermont a day or two before B&C made their final statement public and found Ron to be a very nice guy. We spoke for over an hour and even though we have different opinions, I have nothing but respect for him. He sounds like the type of person I would enjoy speaking again with in the future. As you know and for the record, he did believe without a doubt that the tine in question is a typical, thus siding with you. We also know Ron was one of the panel scorers who scored the world record Milo Hanson head. Did we hate each other because of our difference opinions? Absolutely not. I also promised Ron that I would keep our conversation personal and private and only reveal this: Ron believes the tine in question is a typical and that the B&C rule booklet does have some "gray area" regarding the procedure in scoring a tine like yours. Never did I state that Ron was in doubt regarding his decision or his belief regarding your tine in question.

Because of the fact that many other forums don't show you the support that this forum does, should shed some light that your rack really does carry doubt and isn't this hands-down world record like you would want everyone to believe. Rules are rules and you don't deserve special treatment because you own the head. Congratulations to you for getting the exposure you desired! Unfortunately, you got an answer you didn't want.

I think these are some important facts you should take into consideration. First, although Ron is an extremely experienced B&C scorer, he does not have the authority to authorize your head to be panel scored. Yes, he did score Milo Hanson's head, but with no disrespect to him, an entry level B&C sorer could have scored that head. Milo's rack was nearly perfect with only 2 sticker points, making it a task relatively elementary. Another fact is although you have nearly 99% support from readers who frequent this forum, about 99% of them have never picked up a B&C scoring manual nor have they ever had to have a set of antlers scored at this level. Their opinion was formed out of sympathy for you and the negativity written about Jack and the B&C system. With maybe 1% of the posters ever even coming within 50 miles of a B&C scoring manual, I would say that their sympathy won't go far with getting your rack scored as a world record.

The only reason I'm even responding to this is because you frequently bring my name up here, as if I'm an enemy of you and I'm far from it. The facts are this: You're an antler collector who paid a ton of money for that rack which happens to be a 180" set of antlers and not a world record. B&C made their decision, with numerous scorers looking at the pictures and some examining it in person (which is protocol for B&C) and they all agree at the top, that your rack is what it is. Why don't you drop the personal attacks, let everyone enjoy what a magnificent rack it is and move on!

Again, nothing personal Jay. I actually enjoyed speaking with you over the phone and don't want this to be a personal attack on you. In all honesty, I can't imaging the emotions I would have to deal with by shooting a buck like that, or owning it for that matter. I've let some of the personal remarks slide because I'm no angel and I've vented publicly a few times in the past too, but I think it's time to move on.
"A fool learns from his own mistake but a wiseman learns from a fool's mistake "

Jay
 
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Re: Reactions to King Buck Story

Postby Jay » Wed May 25, 2011 9:56 pm

Mark I am going to lie for the first time since this started and I will answer you. You know nothing about scoring and the rules of B&C. Just be honest with your self and admit it. You said that Ron scored the Hanson and it was easy. No poop! your cradentials don't come from scoring a world record its the body of your work from 25 years of scoring that gets you invited to be a panel measurer.
You almost had B&C ready to panel score the King buck! not hardly, I knew going in they never would, and you a joe blow off the street was going to get that done, sorry my friend, not so. Ive played their game for to long. You may have been lead down the wrong road(and you have) but I have lived it for to long with Jack. Again ask Jack why the Dewdny buck went from a over 400 inch non typ mulie to a 339? After the panel scored it the New WR! Ask jack how the Stockwell Couse deer was taken off the wall after 40 years and one man changed the score! Ask Jack how the Fulton head score was changed! By the way thanks for the panel. If you are looking to raise your name in the industry hook your wagon to another horse, I don't play your games.
You did seem to be a nice guy also, but your true colors came out fast.

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Marc Anthony
 
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Re: Reactions to King Buck Story

Postby Marc Anthony » Wed May 25, 2011 10:10 pm

Jay wrote:Mark I am going to lie for the first time since this started and I will answer you. You know nothing about scoring and the rules of B&C. Just be honest with your self and admit it. You said that Ron scored the Hanson and it was easy. No poop! your cradentials don't come from scoring a world record its the body of your work from 25 years of scoring that gets you invited to be a panel measurer.
You almost had B&C ready to panel score the King buck! not hardly, I knew going in they never would, and you a joe blow off the street was going to get that done, sorry my friend, not so. Ive played their game for to long. You may have been lead down the wrong road(and you have) but I have lived it for to long with Jack. Again ask Jack why the Dewdny buck went from a over 400 inch non typ mulie to a 339? After the panel scored it the New WR! Ask jack how the Stockwell Couse deer was taken off the wall after 40 years and one man changed the score! Ask Jack how the Fulton head score was changed! By the way thanks for the panel. If you are looking to raise your name in the industry hook your wagon to another horse, I don't play your games.
You did seem to be a nice guy also, but your true colors came out fast.


What ever Jay. Go cry to someone else. I don't need to make a name in this industry, I already have one and it wasn't by buying other people's antlers. End of story.

Good luck trying to convince the other half of the world that you've been so abused. Try killing your own deer for once.
"A fool learns from his own mistake but a wiseman learns from a fool's mistake "

Jay
 
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Re: Reactions to King Buck Story

Postby Jay » Thu May 26, 2011 7:15 am

Marc do me one favor. Ask the questions I put in front of you. Find out about the Dewdny Buck and Stockwell. find out why some B&C scorers said the night before they panel scored the Hole in the Horn buck thye said it won't be our WR. We can disagree all day long about the King buck thats fine, We can agree to diagree. This should never have gotten negative and for that I do appologize. I get very deffensive after Jack has spread lies about me "score shopping" the antlers with no proof. Having the antlers band from a deer show, and emailing scorers telling them they are not allowed to look at the deer.

About Ron , Do realize he drove a truck load of antlers to Quebec Canada to teach them how to score for B&C, one his own dime. He and Jack are 25 year friends until this deer came along. They have a disagreement on how this deer should have been scored, all they would of had to do is talk it out and debate the issue. Instead Jack calls the WBBC and goes negative on Ron saying he is trouble maker and has been in trouble in the past. Ron offered Jack $100 bet to come up with one name of one scorer that i asked to score the deer, he couldn't, but yet to this day still says I have been score shopping. Ron has now been invited to score a set of Moose antlers, the last big game animal Teddy Roosevelt shot. That is a pretty good honor. So again sorry for getting negative, and I do wish you all the best in the whitetail woods. i do buy antlers out of a passion like some people collect cars, painting or baseball cards.

GrandView
 
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Re: Reactions to King Buck Story

Postby GrandView » Thu May 26, 2011 12:01 pm

Jay wrote:........find out why some B&C scorers said the night before they panel scored the Hole in the Horn buck thye said it won't be our WR.


There was big discussion about whether the Hole in the Horn buck would be officially scored as a mainframe 10 or a mainframe 8. Dick Idol knew that going in and has mentioned it several times.

The buck was ultimately scored as a mainframe 8...............lowering the non-typical score. There wasn't any big conspiracy.

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ishman
 
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Location: western pennsylvania

Re: Reactions to King Buck Story

Postby ishman » Thu May 26, 2011 3:53 pm

Im not quite sure i like what this story has brought to this website. There is no need for these newbies to come in here and start bashing everyone who doesnt see it there way. Just my two cents.
Eric

whitetailhunter
 
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Re: Reactions to King Buck Story

Postby whitetailhunter » Thu May 26, 2011 4:07 pm

ishman wrote:Im not quite sure i like what this story has brought to this website. There is no need for these newbies to come in here and start bashing everyone who doesnt see it there way. Just my two cents.




Why do you think its called a debate. Without" newbies" there would not be anyone here worth listening to, except for all of the child like bickering going on between a certain few individuals. JUST MY 2 CENTS.

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ishman
 
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Re: Reactions to King Buck Story

Postby ishman » Thu May 26, 2011 5:27 pm

Well I just think that the name calling and personal bashing could be done somewhere else. Marc Anthony is a very respected person on here and these guys talk to him like hes trash. NOT COOL!! Wheres the respect?
Eric

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