Reactions to King Buck Story

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steve@zerodetectcamo.com
 
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Re: Reactions to King Buck Story

Postby steve@zerodetectcamo.com » Fri May 27, 2011 6:58 am

Interesting article and I have never joined in on a dialogue of this nature, in 54 years of hunting and reading articles.
I applaud Duncan Dobie for going to task for this great whitetail and the hunter who harvested it, as we all should to protect the integrity of our passion and the love and respect we have for the animals themselves...
First of all the ruling that the G-2 and 3's do not originate from the main beam is absurd, as even the untrained eye could see this is not true, especially the G-3 even has a ridge flowing into the main beam in the inside...enough said about that!
However there are other factors that seem over the the years to be prevelant with scoring typical whitetails. The B & C system of measuring is designed to primarily find the perfectly shaped rack which appears the "more important aspect" and measurement being secondary. This buck falls short in their mind or philosophy because of the G-2 and G-3 are not balanced with the G-2 and G-3's of the opposite side. This is a more important "unspoken" consideration when the possiblilty exists for declaring a new world record "typical" whitetail. The Hanson buck is what they desire to be representative of the perfectly shaped rack and thus all racks are and will be compared to that concept when a new rack is brought up for considersation. There is more of a psycholigical issue than a fact issue, I believe we are dealing with here.
The Hanson buck is truly a great buck, however if you enter into any whitetail display, it is agreed by most that the Hanson buck is overpowered by other bucks on display! 'Especially in the mass department'...
The fact that this rack was swept under the rug from the beginning should tell the whole story. It was clear that "the man in charge" was trying to get this out of circulation before the public found out about it by rendering a decision and gettting the hunter to hurry up and sign something "in ignorance" that would further inhibit the possability of this great buck being elevated to it's rightful place.
And I agree with the gentleman who stated that if we don't like the B & C scoring system then we shouldn't join the organization. However the system in this case is not the problem, as it appears that those in charge of the system are using it to express their personal preferences rather than accomplishing what the system was originally set out to accomplish...that is to have a system of measuring that would recognize the "great trophy's" that are taken by hunters and what a tribute to the "Creator" for giving such a gift to man...(not a factor).
The thought of seeing a buck of this caliber whether it presented an opportunity or not in my lifetime renders me speechless! To not give it less than it's due credit because of an apparent "elitest phylosophy" that has developed within an organization that hunters have esteemed to be the criteria by which all other scoring organizations are judged, is a discredit to the group for which they represent...but then again look at what is going on with other facets of our life...
So who am I to give my opinion? "No one" actually...just a guy who loves big antlers, big whitetails, big bull elk...just like every other person who loves and respects "the animal"...and wants to see it receive its just reward, and tribute given to the one who harvested it, and in my case respect to the " One who created it"...sb
P.S. no need to respond as I will probably never read it...

whitetailhunter
 
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Re: Reactions to King Buck Story

Postby whitetailhunter » Fri May 27, 2011 8:18 am

Well sir, whether or not you read this reply I must say WELL SAID. For me and all the others who could only put it this way in our minds and hearts.You have said exactly what needs to be said. Maybe(just maybe) some one who can make the right decision will read and be touched by this thought. For the sake of our sport, and the animals we pursue.

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jonny5buck
 
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Re: Reactions to King Buck Story

Postby jonny5buck » Fri May 27, 2011 7:02 pm

Did i miss read something...or did the guy that killed this Buck sell it off???---Are you kidding me ? if he did...

Is that really all it is? a money maker?

If he didnt i apologize ahead of time ,but record or not if you kill a buck like that and turn around and mount it,,,than sell it..

What message does that send??...$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$--?

whitetailhunter
 
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Re: Reactions to King Buck Story

Postby whitetailhunter » Fri May 27, 2011 7:53 pm

You have to ask yourself, is money more important than a once in a lifetime buck? For most of the readers here i think the answer goes without saying, but its hard to judge a person you know nothing about either.Who amongst us can say with any amount of certainty what kind of situation Mr King was in when he made the decision to sell that beautiful creature that GOD had given him? Do you put food on the table or a deer head over the fireplace? Tough call but...?

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jonny5buck
 
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Re: Reactions to King Buck Story

Postby jonny5buck » Sat May 28, 2011 11:25 am

Ya i was just wondering if he still has the head or not?..it seems by reading thru the posts that someone else has acquired them...And i do not know Johhny King buck guy personally ..nor am judging him...It seems like all the threads on here are aimed towards Boone & Crockett ...the score of the deer antlers....to me that is a shame that the focus is on that...just read thru the umpteen posts... :D

I personally have stated that i could care less about B&C and P&Y..before this even unfolded..i stand by that.. i know of more than one guy who went thru the scoring process and came back dejected...when i asked one close friend of mine ''if it was worth it'' he ..honestly replied..No way..he hasn't gone thru it again...and never will...i was simply never interested in scores and the book,...it's not my thing....but do have a friend across the street ,that mounts deer and is into the B& C club-he likes it...to each his own

I am more interested in the actual events of that day...the hunter himself...how much time he put in...was it mostly luck? ...or someone who who had a a few yr saga of ups and downs till he put the hammer down on this deer.?....To me all of those events trump the book...the club...and all the hoopla surronding this fiasco....I can't seem to find the original story on this buck,and the hunter..i think D&Dh should do a just as deep insight: into the day of the hunt,and his story...i personally love that aspect of the hunt..to me that part is everything.

I personaly Kneel down and openly Thank god for ''EACH'' deer that i harvest....for me that is enough...but the story of how you got there ...to me is the most important part....i dont feel we heard enough from the Johnny King guy.....the focus has shifted to politics of a club and there interpretation of the antlers....all im saying is i would like to hear more about the day of the hunt...That is more interesting to me--

Idared
 
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Re: Reactions to King Buck Story

Postby Idared » Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:11 pm

whitetailhunter wrote:You have to ask yourself, is money more important than a once in a lifetime buck? For most of the readers here i think the answer goes without saying, but its hard to judge a person you know nothing about either.Who amongst us can say with any amount of certainty what kind of situation Mr King was in when he made the decision to sell that beautiful creature that GOD had given him? Do you put food on the table or a deer head over the fireplace? Tough call but...?


I don't think a person should judge anyone for selling a rack anymore than we would judge a person for buying one. What to me is more important is why is the buyer purchasing the rack?

How many of you have looked at a great rack in Cabelas or Bass Pro and admired it. This would not have happened if someone had not decided to sell that rack to begin with. I had a great friend who has sadly passed on, who was fortunate enough to shoot the largest elk in Montana. It was one of the most beautiful elk racks I have seen and obviously what the B&C had in mind when they made up their rule book. It was ranked number 2 all time when he shot it and the last time I looked it was still in the top 10 all time. He decided in his latter years to sell the rack, perhaps to help fund his retirement, but wanted it to stay in the state of Montana. Up until this time it was available for anyone to see if they visited Dillon, MT. I certainly could not fault him for selling it for whatever he received for it.

Mr. King has his own reasons for selling the rack. Why should we question that? What I am more curious is whay did the seller buy it? Is it purely as an investment, with the hope it will be worth more latter if the B&C decision can be reversed? Is it with the thought that it will be put on display in a public place for all to see, something Mr King would perhaps had difficulty doing. Perhaps there is another reason. These questions will be answered someday and I await the answers.

In the meantime, congrats are in order to Mr. King. He has killed the whitetail of a lifetime and I am happy for him.

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Everyday Hunter
 
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Re: Reactions to King Buck Story

Postby Everyday Hunter » Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:39 pm

My subscription copy of the other whitetail magazine just came in the mail, and Gordon Whittington has a short article in it about the King buck. He doesn't go into as much detail about it, but I'm thinking we haven't heard the last of this.

Steve
When the Everyday Hunter isn't hunting, he's thinking about hunting, talking about hunting, dreaming about hunting, writing about hunting, or wishing he were hunting.
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GrandView
 
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Re: Reactions to King Buck Story

Postby GrandView » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:12 pm

Everyday Hunter wrote:..........but I'm thinking we haven't heard the last of this.


Oh, I have no doubt there will be discussion and continued grousing.

But I'll bet we've heard the last from Boone & Crockett. And that's the correct decision.

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Sailfish
 
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Re: Reactions to King Buck Story

Postby Sailfish » Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:07 am

And the saga continues (offhand was there any update from the forum member who had the insider information that would settle this once and for all?)):


The controversy surrounding the potential world-record Johnny King Buck just got a lot more interesting.

After Deer & Deer Hunting broke Duncan Dobie's story about the dispute surrounding the Johnny King Buck, Boone & Crockett Club officials issued a statement saying they believed the buck was a nontypical because the buck's right "G3" was offset from the main line of the main beam.

In a statement posted today on its website, B&C now claims the right antler does not a have G3, but "an abnormal point that rises off of the G2."

Confused? You're not alone.

In an interview with D&DH this afternoon, 30-year certified B&C scorer Ron Boucher said he thinks the club is wrestling with its worst scoring problem in 35 years — and is going about it the wrong way.

"I still believe strongly in what the Boone and Crockett Club stands for, but I just believe Jack Reneau is wrong on this deer — using the words of the official measurer's manual," said Boucher.

He also had strong words for many of the individuals who have posted comments on blogs, forums and article links.

"These people claim to be experts on scoring, but they are expressing opinions without ever having held the rack and scored it themselves. They simply don't know what they're talking about," Boucher said. "The point does not come off of the G-2. You cannot determine that from a photo. You have to put your hands on the rack. It is not a common-base point. You ask any scorer who has actually put his hands on this rack, put masking tape to it and a straight edge, and 95 percent of them will tell you it passes the Figure 8 test as described in the Boone and Crockett scorer's manual ... and that it is a straight 6-by-6 typical all the way."

In its online article, B&C went on to state, "... it makes more sense to enter this deer as a non-typical at a score of roughly 217 points. However, this deer should end up being ranked among the top non-typicals of all-time from the book-dominating state of Wisconsin."

Boucher scoffed at that notion. "That is absolutely absurd," he said. "To say this is a 217-inch nontypical, you're going to look ridiculous. Furthermore, there are probably more than two dozen deer from Wisconsin that netted more than 217."

Boucher is not the only prominent B&C scorer or whitetail expert who has handled the rack and expressed opinions that it should be scored as a typical or, at a minimum, be called in for a panel-scoring session. Others who have actually scored the rack include Marlin Laidlaw, Herm Feller and John Ramsey of the Wisconsin Buck & Bear Club, and Mike Handley of Buckmasters. Gordon Whittington of North American Whitetail has also inspected the rack on several occasions and has made recent statements that he believes it qualifies as a typical and should be panel-scored.
"Go as far as you can see; when you get there, you'll be able to see farther."

GrandView
 
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Re: Reactions to King Buck Story

Postby GrandView » Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:52 am

In a statement posted today on its website, B&C now claims the right antler does not a have G3, but "an abnormal point that rises off of the G2."

Confused? You're not alone.


You're bound to be confused if you take the above quote as fact. The B&C statement was.....

"On the King buck, the right G2 has been ruled normal, the projection on the anterior edge of the G2 is not a G3 and does not have a common base point; it is an abnormal point because its base comes out of the webbing where the G2 point meets the main beam."

This is still an issue of an offset point. The above B&C statement is relating that the suspect point's outside base does not originate from the outer edge of the main beam.........it originates from the forward (anterior) edge of the webbing off the G2.

Mr. Boucher stated......."You ask any scorer who has actually put his hands on this rack, put masking tape to it and a straight edge, and 95 percent of them will tell you it passes the Figure 8 test as described in the Boone and Crockett scorer's manual ... and that it is a straight 6-by-6 typical all the way."

The B&C statement which preceded the above statement from Mr. Boucher is....."The figure-8 shape does not automatically qualify both points as normal points. The figure-8 can be identifiable, but if both points are not aligned with the outside edge of the main beam, at least one point, if not both, must be considered abnormal." (emphasis mine)

To date, none of the scorers......nor any other person championing the cause for this rack.....has directly addressed the offset point.

It boils down to one simple issue: Is the article in Fair Chase magazine about offset points, complete with information, explanation, illustration, and instruction, adjunct to the Boone and Crockett scorer's manual?

Clearly Boone and Crockett administration believes it is. All of their explanations about the point directly address the offset point issue.

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Last edited by GrandView on Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

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