Australian Prime Minister says it best.

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Dylan
 
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Re: Australian Prime Minister says it best.

Postby Dylan » Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:53 pm

Jslotter wrote:Good old fashoin riot police beat down would have prevented that.


I thought the cops handled it pretty well.

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JPH
 
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Re: Australian Prime Minister says it best.

Postby JPH » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:42 am

Dylan, are you Canadian? Do you have any first hand experience with the healthcare system in Canada or are you just frustrated with ours?

I have a pretty close friend who is a critical care nurse and a Canadian immigrant. He went to nursing school in Canada but has worked all over the US as a traveling nurse. He is the biggest critic of the Canadian healthcare system I've ever known. He says it is about as efficient and user friendly as our DMV.

We had to take one of our teens in to a walk in clinic for an infection while on a service mission to Thunder Bay in 2010. She sat in a waiting room for 8 hours in order to be placed on a waiting list to see a PA! We'd have been better off taking her to a Vet.

Anyone who thinks the government should handle our healthcare should visit Canada and try it on for size, or maybe visit a VA hospital right here at home. No thank you!

As for the supposed remarks by the Aussie PM? Just another internet hoax to rile up xenophobic sentiment. If the US had taken on this attitude 150 years ago, like the Know Nothing Party or the Masons had wanted, the Irish, Italian, Polish and German immigrants who shaped the modern US would have been sent away. Remember, before then we were ruled exclusively by a WASP aristocracy who was very frightened by the working class immigrants from Europe.

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Deebz
 
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Re: Australian Prime Minister says it best.

Postby Deebz » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:45 pm

JPH: You make a good point about the fact that if we had closed our borders to immigrants 150 years ago we would have missed out on the core of the working class people who really built this country. But that was 150 years ago. Things are different now. The immigrants who are entering our country illegally are not coming with the same attitude as the immigrants of 150 years ago. I guess I shouldn't make a blanket statement there, but if a person really wants to come and be a part of our country they should do it legally and obtain citizenship and pay taxes and be a contribution instead of a drain.

The majority of the illegal immigrants we see today are here to take advantage of the high wages they can work for cash under the table (no taxes paid) which they often send back "home" to their families. Very little of this money is staying in the US economy. Hospitals cannot refuse treatment to a person with no health insurance, regardless of whether or not they have the money to pay for it. This means my bill is higher to cover the cost of other people's health care. It galls me that our nation's educators are expected to figure out ways to teach their subjects to students who do not speak English. We are supposed to adapt to them. If you immigrate, then you are leaving behind whatever it is you had before to take on the new. How is language not included there?

Xenophobic or not, I see no problem with closing the door on a person who plans on coming to the US for a better life for themself without contributing to the betterment of the nation as the original immigrants did.
"When a hunter is in a tree stand with high moral values and with the proper hunting ethics and richer for the experience, that hunter is 20 feet closer to God." ~Fred Bear

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JPH
 
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Re: Australian Prime Minister says it best.

Postby JPH » Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:37 pm

I could not disagree more Deebz.

Today's immigrants are no different than my ancestors who came here from Ireland. They are coming here not because they want to "take advantage" but because there are no other options available. The system of so-called legal immigration in the days of Ellis Island involved spending one's fortune to board a ship, surviving the passage and answering a few questions and being screened for TB. That was it. Most of the Irish spoke English but with such an accent that it was of very little use. Other immigrants did not suddenly learn English. It took a generation to pick it up. Furthermore, they sent money home to their families in the old country so that they might eat. As an example, one of the most ornate churches in Ireland is in the town of Cobh, Co. Cork and overlooks the deep water port where most Irish immigrants boarded the coffin ships. It was built exclusively from funds sent back by former immigrants. The idea of a flag waving European immigrant who came here because of some far off Jeffersonian ideal is a myth. Those trying to enter "legally" today are mired down with costs and legal hurdles that are practically impossible to overcome if one is truly in need. Many people who cross today are simply trying to stay alive. They don't have the money for "legal" immigration. They are no different from our ancestors and they are no different from you and me.

The idea that they are criminals is silly in my eyes. Rosa Parks broke the law and she was a hero. The law denied her her basic rights as a human being and they were unjust. As far as I am concerned, anyone who is willing to risk a horrible death in the desert, cross the border to work their ass off and feed their family is deserving of a medal, not deportation.

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Jslotter
 
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Re: Australian Prime Minister says it best.

Postby Jslotter » Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:13 pm

I think they are different that immigrants now days want to either wage a jihad in my neighborhood, or they are smuggling drugs and trafficking and soliciting prostitutes. And somehow the constitution protects them. My .45 auto protects my freedom and rights. Times have changed. This aint the gay 90's anymore. Sorry if you disagree.
I only hunt on days that end in ' Y '.

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Woods Walker
 
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Re: Australian Prime Minister says it best.

Postby Woods Walker » Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:27 pm

I've owned and operated a landscape construction business for the past 35 years, and I've had a lot of contact with immigrants from Latin America. It goes without saying that the vast majority of them are hard working, family oriented, Christian people. That's not even a debatable point.

But in those 35 years, I've had a chance to observe them as a culture, both from the people who've worked for me and the fact that Illinois has a very high population of them. What I've noticed is that by and large they DON'T assimilate all that quickly, and I'm not just talking about the ones who came here after they were adults. They do tend to live in areas that are almost 100% hispanic. If their kids play soccer or other sports they tend to do it in hispanic only leagues, and in the Chicago Tribune you are hard pressed to see ANY hispanic names in the obituary columns because they have their own spanish newspapers and the like. Where I live is in more of a rural area, and while there's not as many out here, many of the ones that I do see that have young children speak only spanish.

Now I do agree that it takes a generation for most immigrants to assimilate, and that there will be variation. My ancestors migrated here from Italy and Spain in the late 1800's. They all lived in the city in ethnic areas, but on both sides of my family the parents made SURE that their kids learned english, went to school, and did better that they did. By the time the first generation was grown, they had all pretty much moved out of the city into suburbs and the like. That first generation was already 100% American not just from birth status, but also in attitude and culture. Saving civilization as we know it in the 1940's maybe had something to do with that!

Now, in defense of the current hispanic immigrants, I must say this......my ancestors had 2000 miles of ocean between them and "the old country". Back in the late 1800's that was not a journey lightly undertaken, and for the vast majority of them it was a PERMANENT one way trip. People from Latin America have a couple day bus ride, and that makes the separation a lot less permanent. Combine that with the high population of them living here, and it's easy to see why they are not to fast to assimilate. Add in all the stores that have everything in english AND spanish, and it makes HAVING to learn english even less of a priority.

But now we come to the REAL villian in all this.........OUR GOVERNMENT!!!

Back when I started out in my business (1977), the INS actually did their job, and even micro-sized companies with 2 and 3 employees would be checked, and more than one landscaper that I knew who had two men mowing grass would come back to the job to find all the equipment sitting there and the men GONE! Back in those days, very few of them who were here illegally would even dream of bringing the wives and children here for fear of them being pulled off a job one day and their families stranded here.

Then the immigration "amnesty" act of 1986 was made law. Yessir, THAT was going to solve the illegal immigration problem. People had a window of forgiveness to register and become legal, and THEN they were going to crack down HARD on the illegals AND the people who hired them. Well guess what...THEY DID JUST THE OPPOSITE! Deportation raids stopped, no one was sent home anymore, and I even had a ffriend who was a surburban LEO who stopped a van with 15 guys in it who spoke no english, and had no papers or ID. He called INS and they told him to LET THEM GO, WE DON'T BOTHER WITH THAT ANYMORE!

Well these people aren't stupid. Hmmm...let's see...no raids, no deportation....why should I live a lonely life without my wife and children? I'LL JUST BRING THEM HERE!

Fast forward 25 years, and this mess is what we have now. THANK YOU FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FOR NOT ENFORCING YOUR OWN LAWS!!!

Gee...I wonder which Federal laws I can ignore and get away scott-free with?
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kellory
 
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Re: Australian Prime Minister says it best.

Postby kellory » Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:17 pm

JPH, Your ancesters were not very welcome then either. There were signs in windows for jobs "No Irish need apply" They were clannish, known for fighting, drinking, and they were not trusted with anything of value. They were second class workers. This is not true of all of cource, but it was how they were seen as a people. They were slow to assimalate, due to class, predudice, financial means, job skills. I know you are into martial arts. perhaps you are familiar with one of these? This one is made of ironwood.
irish shillelagh .jpg
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They were very effective at busting heads. :|
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The only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker is observation. All the same data is present for both. The rest is understanding what you are seeing.

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JPH
 
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Re: Australian Prime Minister says it best.

Postby JPH » Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:12 pm

Kellroy you are assisting me in my point. The Irish, along with the other unwashed masses, were feared and rejected by the ruling classes. Those in the dominant class were afraid that the nation would change if they let all those drunken Irish, thieving Italians, stupid Poles and stubborn Germans settle in. Well they were wrong in their assessment of the immigrants' character but they were correct in their assumption that the nation would change. It just so happens that many of the changes were for the better.

My position is that today's immigrants will most certainly change the nation, but that is a natural part of how this nation evolves. I really don't care if immigrants read their own newspapers, play in their own sports leagues or even speak their own language. How does any of that hurt me? If assimilation was really that important to many of our European immigrant ancestors, we would not have any Catholic or Lutheran churches, Italian restaurants or parties on Saint Patrick's Day. No thank you!

I really don't care if people assimilate to my way of life.

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kellory
 
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Re: Australian Prime Minister says it best.

Postby kellory » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:14 pm

JPH wrote:Kellroy you are assisting me in my point. The Irish, along with the other unwashed masses, were feared and rejected by the ruling classes. Those in the dominant class were afraid that the nation would change if they let all those drunken Irish, thieving Italians, stupid Poles and stubborn Germans settle in. Well they were wrong in their assessment of the immigrants' character but they were correct in their assumption that the nation would change. It just so happens that many of the changes were for the better.

My position is that today's immigrants will most certainly change the nation, but that is a natural part of how this nation evolves. I really don't care if immigrants read their own newspapers, play in their own sports leagues or even speak their own language. How does any of that hurt me? If assimilation was really that important to many of our European immigrant ancestors, we would not have any Catholic or Lutheran churches, Italian restaurants or parties on Saint Patrick's Day. No thank you!

I really don't care if people assimilate to my way of life.

I will assist to a small part, because both sides have merit. We have gained as a country by the melding of coultures, herritages, skills, and peoples. But "seperate but equal" was tried with blacks, an that didn't work so well. When there are several groups within the whole, each striving to remain seperate, There is caos, as everyone is working at cross purposes. That is the basis of "devide and conquer" Conflicts devide us into tribes or bands who damage each other. IE: "the gangs of New York" (of which the irish played a large role) Your ancestors were forced to join in and assimilate because it was not possible to remain apart and survive. They learned to speak the language well enough, many changed thier names, they moved to where the work was, and learned new skills, they could not advance as long as they stayed seperate and clannish. They fought to become the working class, when they wern't fighting amongst themselves. They had no choice, because it was not a real choice to go home to Ireland. Nothing to go back to, and no money to get there. The new flock are not emigrants, there are ileagal allians. There is one very large diffrence. One has the protection of the law, and one is running from the law. Some of them have been deported 10 or more times! And they are back accross the border in a couple of weeks. It's like in Viet nam, where our troops could not cross a line and go after the scource of the problem, so they just kept coming. Ileagal MEANS : actionable, against the law, banned,contrary to law, criminal, exceeding the law, felonious, forbidden, illegitate,illicit,impermissible,inlicitus,invalid, lawless, not according to law, not covered by law, not permitted, not valid, outlawed, outside the law, prohibited, prohibited by law, proscribed, punishable, quod contra leges fit, unauthorized, uncharted, unjustified, vetitus, without authority, wrongful.....nowhere in this list do I see "un documented emigrant". I do call them criminals, because that is exactly what they are. Because of the illegal alians, we have the border patrols, the police, imagration, our school systems, our hospitals, our healthcare system, our insurance, involved, violated, overworked, and unpaid. I spent 5 years in California, and I have seen illegal immagration, distroying the school system, and healthcare. A man with a truck pulls up to a home depot, holds up two fingers and two mexicans jump into the back of the truck. They have been trained for this on the other side of the border. This is documented.They are certainly not paying taxes on illegal labor rates. Hospitals can not refuse service just because you have no legal right to be here, no money, no insurance, no job, or ID. Hospitals have to bend over and take it. And our bills reflect what they are losing. JPH, you believe it is your business how you hunt your property, the property lines define your kingdom, and NO ONE can tell you not to hunt on that line. Yet the line between COUNTRIES matters, not at all? Crossing a boundry in olden times was punishable by death, if the owner took a dislike to you. That line defined his world. We have the right as a country to say HOW and IF we will accept a newcomer. wiether or not he likes it, it is not his decission. He is a criminal in every sense of the word. And words have meaning, and power. Freedom is more than just a word, slavery is more than just a word, Legal is more than just a word, it is the focused, exspressed will of the people. :|
The only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker is observation. All the same data is present for both. The rest is understanding what you are seeing.

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Woods Walker
 
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Re: Australian Prime Minister says it best.

Postby Woods Walker » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:19 pm

You may not care if anyone assimlates to your way of life, but ANYONE who wants to live here needs to be able to read, write, and SPEAK english. English needs to be made the OFFICIAL language of the USA, and ALL government documents and forms need to be in ENGLISH ONLY. It you want a handout, or any kind of taxpayer funded aid, then ALL the forms need to be in ENGLISH ONLY. Want a drivers license? Take a hunter safety test? Fishing license? YUP! ENGLISH ONLY. Need to go to court? HIRE AN INTERPRETER! Why should I have to PAY FOR your inadequacies??? Can't speak the language of the county who's money and privileges you want? LEARN! Or hire someone to fill out the english only forms for you. Don't like that? Think it's unfair or racist? FINE! Then go back to the 3rd world s*** h*** you came from and take some of your non-english speaking kin with you. I for one am getting REAL tired of this bogus BS.

This BS, and that's EXACTLY what it is, BS, of having VOTING BALLOTS and signs at polling places in SPANISH (or any other foreign language) is spitting in the face of Americans, and makes a mockery of our system and laws.

My people came here 100+ years ago and didn't speak the language. THEY LEARNED. They HAD to, because no one catered to them like we do for immigrants today. We are NOT doing these people any favors, and especially their children, who by not having the english speaking skills needed to succeed in America are being relegated to a working life of menial jobs. How many Mac Donalds jobs can we supply?

To be able to vote you need to be an American citizen. That means that you were either born here or you became naturalized. If you were born here and you cannot speak english, then you either skipped school entirely, and/or your parents need to be brought up on child abuse charges, because they've just condemned their child to a life of poverty and never being able to achieve ANY of the rapidly fading American dream. If you became a naturalized citizen, then that means that you had to take and pass a written test WHICH IS ADMINISTERED IN ENGLISH ONLY.

This being the case, then WHY in the name of stale doughnuts are voting materials and signs in any language other than english???? For those who don't know the answer to this question, I'll tell you. Our government KNOWS that illegals are voting. They WANT THEM to vote, because 90% of them vote communist...OOOPS!...I mean socialist/Democrat (and we all know that a communist is merely a socialist/Democrat on a tighter time schedule). :mrgreen:

WHEW!!! I need to sit down for a while!
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Kill Swiftly,

Waste Nothing,

Offer No Apologies.....

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