Australian Prime Minister says it best.

[JPH]

J'per: And then why is the CDL license test in english only, but not a regular driver's license?

Doesn't a non-commercial vehicle operator have to read the same signs and what not as a commercial vehicle operator?

.

Oh this one's a slam dunk!

A regular DL does not require that you read in any language. If you cannot read someone will read it to you in whatever language you speak. One only needs to recognize the shape and color of the signs and how to react to them.

A CDL requires that a driver be able to read documents regarding cargo and/or passengers. It has nothing to do with road signs. English happens to be the language of international travel and commerce. Same reason pilots and air traffic controllers must be able to speak English, even outside of the US.

[Woods Walker]

What if they're ignorant of english and colorblind? But you don't have to answer. I know what you will say. Because of their superior intellect (the same intellect by which they don't speak english) they will be able to recognize the shapes so that's all they need.

I've worked literally side by side with these people on a daily basis for 35 years. My perceptions an attitudes are based on this. Do I speak spanish? Barely. Oh I know a few words to point at things and such, but in no way can I communicate phrases or ideas. Why? BECAUSE IT'S MY CHOICE. I don't have to, so I don't. I'm the one writing the paychecks. This same attitude comes from the other side. The only difference is that they are not the ones writing the checks. On that same note, the ones that have worked for me that DID make the effort to learn english are the ones that advanced to foremen and made more money. The customer demands that SOMEONE on the job be able to communicate with them.

It's funny, but when I was younger and starting out, I was a lot more forgiving about this stuff, but as the decades went by and I lived with what is actually the reality of it that changed. And you are well aware of where that is!

[JPH]

I've worked literally side by side with these people on a daily basis for 35 years. My perceptions an attitudes are based on this. Do I speak spanish? Barely. Oh I know a few words to point at things and such, but in no way can I communicate phrases or ideas. Why? BECAUSE IT'S MY CHOICE. I don't have to, so I don't. I'm the one writing the paychecks. This same attitude comes from the other side. The only difference is that they are not the ones writing the checks. On that same note, the ones that have worked for me that DID make the effort to learn english are the ones that advanced to foremen and made more money. The customer demands that SOMEONE on the job be able to communicate with them.

See I literally have no problem with this. I agree with you 100%! Let the employers and the customers sort this out. We don't need electric fences and remote guns on the border or overreaching governmental regulations to do it.

I don't speak Spanish either. Not that I don't want to learn, I'm just too lazy. My wife, on the other hand, has taught herself Spanish through self study and immersion and she did it in her late 30's. That impresses me and I see nothing immoral or unpatriotic about it. It is just a choice that she made to expand herself. Some people do that and some don't. It is not an ethnic thing, it is a question of character.

I really don't think you and I are that far from each other. I was once a far right conservative myself. It's just that I've begun to see too many holes in the game. The right is against abortion but for the death penalty? The right is for homeland security but against the collective bargaining rights of firefighters and police? The right is strong on national sovereignty but for the invasion of Iraq? The right is against government regulation but for establishing English as the official language? The right is for individual freedom but against immigration? I realize that their are reasonable distinctions among these issues, but the hippocracy still shows through.

[Rutnut]

The right is for individual freedom but against immigration?

This quote is just not true...They are against Illegal immigration, not immigration.

And no one is being fooled; the border crossing being left open by our government is all about politics, not human rights. We have legal crossing areas for those who wish to do so legaly.

[Deebz]

That's my basic point as well. I'm all for a person working to better their life, but every person who makes it into this country ILLEGALLY and sets up shop is a drain on our economy. They can qualify for free money from the government. The last time I checked the money that the government has comes from the taxes that the CITIZENS of that government pay.

[JPH]

The right is for individual freedom but against immigration?

This quote is just not true...They are against Illegal immigration, not immigration.

And no one is being fooled; the border crossing being left open by our government is all about politics, not human rights. We have legal crossing areas for those who wish to do so legaly.

Actually I'd say that many Republicans prefer illegal immigration because it creates a class of shadow people who cannot stand up for their rights as workers. My argument is that they WANT illegal immigration because if they really sealed the border they'd lose their cheap labor pool, and if they allowed amnesty their cheap labor would be able to stand up to business owners and ask for safety and decent wages.

The average poor person in Latin America with hungry children cannot look to their government or local businesses for social justice, they cannot afford the legal fees to obtain legal immigration documents and their children cannot wait for things to simply get better. Not only do I hope I'd have the guts to make the crossing if I were in their position, I hope I'd have the guts to help them over from this side if I had the chance.

[JPH]

That's my basic point as well. I'm all for a person working to better their life, but every person who makes it into this country ILLEGALLY and sets up shop is a drain on our economy. They can qualify for free money from the government. The last time I checked the money that the government has comes from the taxes that the CITIZENS of that government pay.

Actually you're looking at it all wrong in my opinion.

Undocumented aliens pay sales tax and they have taxes and social security withheld from their pay checks yet they will never see the benefits because they were forced to use false documentation. Sadly, undocumented immigration is a huge money maker for the government and unscrupulous business owners.

[Rutnut]

Undocumented aliens pay sales tax and they have taxes and social security withheld from their pay checks yet they will never see the benefits because they were forced to use false documentation

Forced?? Seriously?. Someone grabbed them, dragged them over the border illegally, and stuck fake documents in their hand? No way. We have laws, and without them there would be kayos. If we want an open border, than simply change the laws allowing anyone to come and go as they please. Simple. I don’t break the laws every time I disagree with them. And, I am also responsible for all my actions; I don’t let people force me to do anything.

[Rutnut]

[

Actually I'd say that many Republicans prefer illegal immigration because it creates a class of shadow people who cannot stand up for their rights as workers. My argument is that they WANT illegal immigration because if they really sealed the border they'd lose their cheap labor pool, and if they allowed amnesty their cheap labor would be able to stand up to business owners and ask for safety and decent wages.

I have to disagree completely. Actually, it’s the opposite. Liberals want illegal’s for their vote, and after that they really don’t care about them. Republicans want to do away with the minimum wage, and yes, then the free market will dictate the rate of pay. But, that's a bit off the border topic....sorry. I just don’t see how anyone can justify breaking the law...to me it's that simple. You come here ILLEGAL, than you are an illegal immigrant. Come here legally, and guess what....your just an immigrant....Here legally. And that's what we are all made of.

If People want change, change the law.

[Woods Walker]

"...........responsible for all my actions...."

AH HA!!! Now we come to the heart of the matter! That's the problem. No one wants to be repsonsible for their actions. It's gotta be someone else's fault.

"The devil made me do it!"...........(or George Bush if you ask Obama)