Australian Prime Minister says it best.

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JPH
 
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Re: Australian Prime Minister says it best.

Postby JPH » Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:41 pm

Rutnut wrote: Liberals want illegal’s for their vote, and after that they really don’t care about them.

I agree with you here. Don't take my empathy for immigrants to be support for a liberal agenda. Frankly my positions on the subject are shaped largely by my faith, a faith that the left is hostile toward. The political class is letting us down on both ends.

As for the idea of undocumented immigrants being criminal? Well we've already covered that in this thread, but I'll sum my thoughts up quickly to save you some time. History is full of people who broke unjust laws out of principal or necessity. Again, Rosa Parks broke the law and sat in the front of the bus. I'd break the traffic laws to get a bleeding child to an emergency room. You can say they are not forced, but I doubt you'd say that in their position.

If you were hungry and hurting and I could help you by breaking an arbitrary or unjust law, I hope I'd do it. That's what my faith tells me to do.

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Re: Australian Prime Minister says it best.

Postby Rutnut » Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:44 pm

Woods Walker wrote:or George Bush if you ask Obama)


Oh no....please don't get me side tracked with Obama quotes, He blames EVERYONE but himself. EVERYONE!! I actually heard him blame our problems on the tsunami. He loves to blame and divide, and...

Geeezzz, I have to stop there.

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Re: Australian Prime Minister says it best.

Postby Woods Walker » Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:47 pm

And just who is it that determines what "unjust" is? You? Me? An Islamo-loonie with a bomb vest on?

We either have laws that we follow or we don't. That's what separates us from anarchy.
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Rutnut
 
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Re: Australian Prime Minister says it best.

Postby Rutnut » Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:51 pm

JPH wrote:As for the idea of undocumented immigrants being criminal? Well we've already covered that in this thread, but I'll sum my thoughts up quickly to save you some time. History is full of people who broke unjust laws out of principal or necessity. Again, Rosa Parks broke the law and sat in the front of the bus. I'd break the traffic laws to get a bleeding child to an emergency room. You can say they are not forced, but I doubt you'd say that in their position


You make a good point. The only clarification I would point out, is that you are referring to citizens of our country, taking a stand. Your rite, sometime breaking the law in something you believe in turns for the good of all people. Other countries, however, need to do their part to help their citizens. We the people can’t save the world.

JPH wrote:If you were hungry and hurting and I could help you by breaking an arbitrary or unjust law, I hope I'd do it. That's what my faith tells me to do.


Thanks brother...my faith would have me do the same for you. Let's just hope it doesn’t come down to that!!

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JPH
 
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Re: Australian Prime Minister says it best.

Postby JPH » Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:49 pm

Rutnut wrote:
JPH wrote:If you were hungry and hurting and I could help you by breaking an arbitrary or unjust law, I hope I'd do it. That's what my faith tells me to do.


Thanks brother...my faith would have me do the same for you. Let's just hope it doesn’t come down to that!!


This is a good place to start but I'll push it into territory you may find uncomfortable (I know I did at first). Jesus' love does not know borders. In fact He demands that we look beyond them. Remember Luke 10: 25-37, the Parable of the Good Samaritan.

Come on man, really think about it.

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Re: Australian Prime Minister says it best.

Postby Rutnut » Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:01 pm

JPH wrote:Jesus' love does not know borders. In fact He demands that we look beyond them. Remember Luke 10: 25-37, the Parable of the Good Samaritan.


Well than, you should be all set with the Obama agenda. "For me as a Christian, it also coincides with Jesus's teaching that for unto whom much is given, much shall be required," Obama said.
Although, in this case he is refering to taxes. So, start sending your donations to the IRS!! They will then pass it along to the illegals on your behalf!

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Re: Australian Prime Minister says it best.

Postby kellory » Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:11 pm

JPH wrote:
Rutnut wrote:
JPH wrote:The right is for individual freedom but against immigration?


This quote is just not true...They are against Illegal immigration, not immigration.

And no one is being fooled; the border crossing being left open by our government is all about politics, not human rights. We have legal crossing areas for those who wish to do so legaly.

Actually I'd say that many Republicans prefer illegal immigration because it creates a class of shadow people who cannot stand up for their rights as workers. My argument is that they WANT illegal immigration because if they really sealed the border they'd lose their camnesty their cheap labor would be able to stand up to business owners and ask for safety and decent wages.heap labor pool, and if they allowed

The average poor person in Latin America with hungry children cannot look to their government or local businesses for social justice, they cannot afford the legal fees to obtain legal immigration documents and their children cannot wait for things to simply get better. Not only do I hope I'd have the guts to make the crossing if I were in their position, I hope I'd have the guts to help them over from this side if I had the chance.

RutNut has the right of this. The right is all about individual resposibility, minumum government, and individual excellance. This means get out of my way, and let me acheave what I am capable of acheaving. the left is all about big government and take care of me. Anyone who comes to this country with the ability to excell is glorified by the right. Hell, we buy stock in his company! As long as he has the right to be here in the first place. The right believes you should be able to take care of yourself, and earn your own way. The left, on the other hand have publicly insulted thier own base with the public anouncement that their supporters were nearly too stupid to breath. Or have you forgotten the "hanging chads" in Florida, and the butterfly ballot that 5th graders had no problems but some voters could not figure out? The left stated that ALL those hanging chad votes must be counted as thier votes, because thier voters were too ignorant to fully understand what they were doing? I know I remember it! About the same time they did not want the absetee votes from our servicemen counted? Now this statement: "Actually I'd say that many Republicans prefer illegal immigration because it creates a class of shadow people who cannot stand up for their rights as workers. My argument is that they WANT illegal immigration because if they really sealed the border they'd lose their camnesty their cheap labor would be able to stand up to business owners and ask for safety and decent wages.heap labor pool, and if they allowed " I find this to be completely nonsensical. Republican EXSPECT people to be self sufiecent as much as possible, Cheap labor legally is a good thing for business, cheap labor while breaking the law can cost you your business. These things CAN'T stay hidden, then there are fines, penalties, audiits, lawsuits, and lots, and lots of lawyers. There may also be repairations. Hiring illegals in the first place is short term gain, but a long term big loss. And I believe Amnesty was done during Clinton's Rein wasn't it? So everyone who was here illegally could be set right, and recieve proper wages and pay taxes. We have a pretty efficient emagration system in place now. I know it's efficient, because I have three family members that have gone through it in the last ten years. One German, One French, and One Irainian. (and if he can breaze through it, with our current war fronts, anyone can) Yes, all three learned to speak good English, and exspected too. Because when someone come to there lands, they are exspected to learn THEIR language. Think of the Emergation system as a lifeboat rescue of a much bigger ship, by a smaller ship. We have only so many boats in the water, each one can hold only so many bodies. too many bodies, and you have wrecked the most effective delevery system, too many people in total, and you sink our ship as well. Everybody dies. Now magnify the problem. We are not rescueing One larger ship, but a dozen. We can still only take so many and survive ourselves. So wa take the best and the brightest first, those who are most likely to grow this country, and better them \selves. No matter what we do, we can not take them all, most in fact will be left behind, because there are far too many. And we are the only ship on the horizon. When the illegals come over the border and force themselves into our system, they are acually robbing the rightful rescuee of his shot at rescue. We can't take more, so he has robbed his fellow sufferer. If the illegals problems stem from not being able to handle legal fees, there are organizations for that, and lawyers are required to do so many hours of pro bono work per year, they have no choice. Talk with law firms and see if they can help.But come through the doors provided, enter my house as a house breaker through a window....and you take your chances, and your chances aren't good. :|
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Re: Australian Prime Minister says it best.

Postby Jslotter » Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:14 pm

I sent you a PM JPH.
I only hunt on days that end in ' Y '.

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JPH
 
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Re: Australian Prime Minister says it best.

Postby JPH » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:19 am

Kellroy, this has been fun but your last post pretty much killed my motivation to continue this conversation. It just goes in too many directions and I lack the energy to run all the points down. I'm anti-political. I'm not about to defend the left. I think I accomplished what I set out to do here anyway. I caused people to at least stop and consider the human side of immigration and I demonstrated that a person can be a patriot, a christian and and intellegent person and favor immigartion reform. Considering that I was outnumberd by 5 to 1, I'll leave happy with a draw.

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Re: Australian Prime Minister says it best.

Postby kellory » Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:45 am

JPH wrote:Kellroy, this has been fun but your last post pretty much killed my motivation to continue this conversation. It just goes in too many directions and I lack the energy to run all the points down. I'm anti-political. I'm not about to defend the left. I think I accomplished what I set out to do here anyway. I caused people to at least stop and consider the human side of immigration and I demonstrated that a person can be a patriot, a christian and and intellegent person and favor immigartion reform. Considering that I was outnumberd by 5 to 1, I'll leave happy with a draw.

When out numbered and out gunned, a strategic withdrawl is often the wiseist course of action, in my hunble opinion. You put up a spirited offence, but I believe you are tilting at windmills. Compassion is a good thing, but when you overextend you fail in your enitial endeavor. We are exstended pretty far right now, If the existing system is over whelmed and over run, the only recourse I see to replace it would be a closed border, and armed guards. Then who helps your friends? :|
The only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker is observation. All the same data is present for both. The rest is understanding what you are seeing.

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