Hunting to be banned in U.S.?

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liegong
 
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RE: Hunting to be banned in U.S.?

Postby liegong » Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:50 am

No offense, but you guys have all been taken in by Glen Beck. Once again.

Cass Sunstein has publically - much before his confirmation was coming up- said that he is pro-gun and has actively come out against new animal rights.

Sunstien has come out supporting the DC vs. Heller decision and has written an article in the Harvard Law Review arguing for broader gun rights. Here are a couple of quotes from Susnstien,

[The Second Amendment] has a unique status in contemporary American culture; it has been recognized as a right, and with great intensity, by citizens and politicians of both parties. An interpretation of the Founding document that denied the right would likely create forms of public outrage, political polarization, and social disruption that have not been seen in many decades. Out of respect for the intensely felt convictions of millions of Americans, and with concern for the risks of potential disruption, perhaps the Court should hesitate before denying the right.

In a July letter to Senator Saxby Chambliss (R-GA), Sunstein restated his long-standing views:

I strongly believe that the Second Amendment creates an individual right to possess and use guns for purposes of both hunting and self-defense. I agree with the Supreme Court's decision in the Heller case, clearly recognizing the individual right to have guns for hunting and self-defense. If confirmed, I would respect the Second Amendment and the individual right that it recognizes.

As to animal rights, he made a comment that it might be wise to allow concerned individuals some standing in court in animal rights abuse cases. (Not really what one would call extreme.) This was in an effort to avoid the creation of new regulations. Later, he wrote to Sen. Cornyn (R-Tx) that he would not use his position to advance the position. Further, even if he wanted to, his position wouldn't allow him to do so. It isn't in his power.

It seems really odd to me that conservatives should be up in arms about him, when it is really liberals who should be concerned. He is a self-avowed deregulatory economist and many on the left have been greatly concerned about his position regarding relaxing green-house gas standards.

He is strongly supported by Federalists and has written some incredibly Federalist friendly books such as The Cost-Benefit State, Rick and Reason, Laws of Fear, and the Worst-Case Scenarios. He argues for a strict risk-benefit analysis of all government regulartion. Something that conservatives have long held as a position.

Before jumping on the Glen Beck crazy-train, read up a little bit on these guys. If Sunstein hadn't been confirmed, someone a lot more liberal would have been.

MSHunter
 
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RE: Hunting to be banned in U.S.?

Postby MSHunter » Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:11 am

Do you hunt?

liegong
 
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RE: Hunting to be banned in U.S.?

Postby liegong » Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:33 am

I spend an average of 30-45 days in the field hunting every year and have done so since I was 12. I am now 41. So I guess that is an unqualified yes. As a matter of fact, I just got back from elk hunting and am getting ready for a goose hunt this weekend.

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Woods Walker
 
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RE: Hunting to be banned in U.S.?

Postby Woods Walker » Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:32 am

Did you vote for Obama?

liegong
 
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RE: Hunting to be banned in U.S.?

Postby liegong » Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:11 pm

Did you?

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Ifishandhunt
 
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RE: Hunting to be banned in U.S.?

Postby Ifishandhunt » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:20 pm

[quote]ORIGINAL: DRM57

Too much needs to be said for a short post but please remember, the 2nd Amendment has NOTHING to do with hunting.

Watch what the politicians do and say to their close supporters, there you will find their real agendas. Please pay attention, encourage your friends and families to pay attention.
We are in a war with the people that will take every opportunity to modify this country into something it was never inte

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Ifishandhunt
 
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RE: Hunting to be banned in U.S.?

Postby Ifishandhunt » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:25 pm

DRM57... we know that the 2nd Amen is about guns and not hunting. Careful what you say... you might insult someone's intelligence here. ;) I don' think anyone said they were one in the same on this forum. Both were used in seperate context.


(I thought about this after I posted the comment... I'll state the obvious- although two seperate issues, hunting is linked to 2nd Amen as far as guns go. No guns, no hunting. Also, not sure if anyone has seen articles, but they are going after our bows too. Especially the Humane Society of US -They hate bow hunting, and say ignorant things such as bow hunters use "Brutally inhumane weapons such as the bow and arrow." .Again, hopefully they don't have the power to do this but we must stay on guard.)

You are right though... watch what the politicians say to thier supporters. That is thier agenda.

I am not sure I follow your comments about being 'at war' with people that will take every opportunity to modify this country. I am assuming you mean the anti's?... if so, agreed! I personnaly never put it in the context of 'at war with', but I guess that is as good a description as any

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Ifishandhunt
 
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RE: Hunting to be banned in U.S.?

Postby Ifishandhunt » Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:32 pm

Liegong, welcome to D&DH.

You missed a couple Cass quotes, thought I'd add them:

1) "Extensive regulation of the use of animals."

That ought to make hunting, ranching, research and farming etc real easy for us.

2) To copy your quote Liegong, and extend it in more context:
It was in a 2004 book that Sunstein co-edited- noting a plan to give animals the legal "right" to file lawsuits.:

"Animals should be permitted to bring suit, with human beings as their representatives, to prevent violations of current law … Any animals that are entitled to bring suit would be represented by human counsel, who would owe guardian like obligations and make decisions, subject to those obligations, on their clients' behalf."


I believe if a current law is broken (towards an animal), a person should be held accountable to that law, but not by an animal or someone who is out to make a few million in a wasteful lawsuit posing as counsel. ... I suppose the guardian can read the animals mind?? Geez, I hope my neighbor doesn't sue me because I pushed his dog away from my kid.


3) Sunstein delivered a keynote speech at Harvard University's 2007 "Facing Animals" conference. (Keep in mind that as OIRA Administrator, Sunstein will have the political authority to implement a massive federal government overhaul):

"We ought to ban hunting, I suggest, if there isn't a purpose other than sport and fun. That should be against the law. It's time now."

That is in context... So I suppose he changed his mind in July with his letter you stated he wrote to Saxby Chamblis. Hmmm, me thinks he wanted the nomination. But that is cynical thinking on my part... people don't lie to get what they want. [;)]

4) Sunstein also argued in favor of "eliminating current practices such as greyhound racing, cosmetic testing, and meat eating, most controversially."

Wow, stop eating meat... Something tells me that won't happen!

So those are more his quotes to. I actually watched a video of him giving this speach (BORING!) and saw it in context.


Since we picked up some quotes, here are some of my favorite quotes from another source:
Genesis 1:24-26 (New International Version)

24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so.

25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."


Genesis 27:3:
3 Now then, get your weapons-your quiver and bow-and go out to the open country to hunt some wild game for me

Sounds pretty cut and dry to me. Hey by the way, this book is still available in stores near you. :)

MSHunter
 
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RE: Hunting to be banned in U.S.?

Postby MSHunter » Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:41 pm

ORIGINAL: Ifishandhunt

Liegong, welcome to D&DH.

You missed a couple Cass quotes, thought I'd add them:

1) "Extensive regulation of the use of animals."

That ought to make hunting, ranching, research and farming etc real easy for us.

2) To copy your quote Liegong, and extend it in more context:
It was in a 2004 book that Sunstein co-edited- noting a plan to give animals the legal "right" to file lawsuits.:

"Animals should be permitted to bring suit, with human beings as their representatives, to prevent violations of current law … Any animals that are entitled to bring suit would be represented by human counsel, who would owe guardian like obligations and make decisions, subject to those obligations, on their clients' behalf."


I believe if a current law is broken (towards an animal), a person should be held accountable to that law, but not by an animal or someone who is out to make a few million in a wasteful lawsuit posing as counsel. ... I suppose the guardian can read the animals mind?? Geez, I hope my neighbor doesn't sue me because I pushed his dog away from my kid.


3) Sunstein delivered a keynote speech at Harvard University's 2007 "Facing Animals" conference. (Keep in mind that as OIRA Administrator, Sunstein will have the political authority to implement a massive federal government overhaul):

"We ought to ban hunting, I suggest, if there isn't a purpose other than sport and fun. That should be against the law. It's time now."

That is in context... So I suppose he changed his mind in July with his letter you stated he wrote to Saxby Chamblis. Hmmm, me thinks he wanted the nomination. But that is cynical thinking on my part... people don't lie to get what they want. [;)]

4) Sunstein also argued in favor of "eliminating current practices such as greyhound racing, cosmetic testing, and meat eating, most controversially."

Wow, stop eating meat... Something tells me that won't happen!

So those are more his quotes to. I actually watched a video of him giving this speach (BORING!) and saw it in context.


Since we picked up some quotes, here are some of my favorite quotes from another source:
Genesis 1:24-26 (New International Version)

24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so.

25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."


Genesis 27:3:
3 Now then, get your weapons-your quiver and bow-and go out to the open country to hunt some wild game for me

Sounds pretty cut and dry to me. Hey by the way, this book is still available in stores near you. :)


Ifishandhunt:
Excellent post!! Bullseye, dead center.

cmarberg18
 
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RE: Hunting to be banned in U.S.?

Postby cmarberg18 » Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:35 pm

liegong... elk hunting in early september? and what state did that occur in? just wondering.... and to everyone else... i got my torch and pitchfork...who is joining me?!

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