Mechanicals vs. Fixed Broadheads

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BruceBruce1959
 
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Mechanicals vs. Fixed Broadheads

Postby BruceBruce1959 » Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:52 am

Everybody know's if it's mechanical with moving parts it's capable of failure.  I'm not bashing Rage Broadheads I'm only using them as an example here because a short while ago they had some bad mechaincals that they recalled.  here's a link to the recall notice.
In the beginning I heard many pro's say nothing but bad about mechanical broadheads, many of them said avoid them at all costs, Now the tables have been turned and because of the almighty dollar some of those same pro's are saying the opposite of what they originally claimed.
Now even though this was an older recall there may still be some bad mechanical's in the field so be careful, check what you got, don't take chances. If you know of others using them let them know to check theirs too.  
This is only a single example of a mechanical broadhead's ability to fail and when you compare them to a fixed blade broadhead are the benefits of mechanicals (If Any) worth the consequences?  I'm sticking with fixed broadheads. We should all do our best to maintain safe, ethical hunting practices If that means avoiding certain products because of safety issues, then so be it. 
"When you live off the land, Living is Good"

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JPH
 
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RE: Mechanicals vs. Fixed Broadheads

Postby JPH » Wed Oct 01, 2008 3:17 am

I think that your concern re. moving parts is valid to a degree. All hunters must inspect all of their equipment to ensure that it is in working order at all times.

But a compound bow has far more moving parts than a traditional. Does that make it unsafe or less ethical?

I have used the Rocky Mountain Sniper (which is a generation 1 Rage b/f the company changed hands) for three years. I have now moved to the current Rage design and feel very comfortable with the way they appear to open (while i have not used them in the field yet).

I am a reasonably experienced bow hunter, who was a diehard fixed blade, cut on contact guy. The rear-opening slip cam design has made me a convert. The accuracy and wound channel is unlike anything I thought possible.

And I get NOTHING from anyone to say this. I agree that there are hucksters out there who will whore themselves out to any company, but I do not consider the D&DH staff to be among them. If they were, I would not be a loyal reader.

Oh and one more thing. To the Rage people. When I said "I get NOTHING from anyone". Well, it's not that I'm above that sort of thing, I just havent had the chance. I'm just floating that out there.

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BruceBruce1959
 
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RE: Mechanicals vs. Fixed Broadheads

Postby BruceBruce1959 » Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:12 am

ORIGINAL: JPH

I think that your concern re. moving parts is valid to a degree. All hunters must inspect all of their equipment to ensure that it is in working order at all times.

But a compound bow has far more moving parts than a traditional. Does that make it unsafe or less ethical?

I am a reasonably experienced bow hunter, who was a diehard fixed blade, cut on contact guy. The rear-opening slip cam design has made me a convert. The accuracy and wound channel is unlike anything I thought possible.

And I get NOTHING from anyone to say this. I agree that there are hucksters out there who will whore themselves out to any company, but I do not consider the D&DH staff to be among them. If they were, I would not be a loyal reader.

 
I agree a hunter should always inspect their equipment But he's the hunter not the engineer,  the hunter can only see if the product is operable and operating safely he doesnt question design and shouldn't have to worry about design flaw that's what Quality control is for.
 
I've used both traditional longbow and compound bows and YES the level of failure is much greater with a compound but with proper maintenance and inspections the compounds have proven themselves to be just as safe. 
 
I use fixed blades only,  too many of my friends have had too many issues with mechanical broadheads for me to even think of switching.  And like you I don't collect a cent from anyone to convey my beliefs about the products I use, I only share with others what I see and what I experience.
 
The wound channel?  A Fixed blade broadhead will send any animal into it's afterlife just as quickly as any mechanical broadhead and the fixed blade broadhead doesn't ruin as much meat as the mechanical... 
 
The D&DH staff have my utmost respect as does anyone who maintains as high an ethical standing in the hunting world.
 
 
"When you live off the land, Living is Good"

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JPH
 
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RE: Mechanicals vs. Fixed Broadheads

Postby JPH » Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:05 am

ORIGINAL: BruceBruce1959

I agree a hunter should always inspect their equipment But he's the hunter not the engineer,  the hunter can only see if the product is operable and operating safely he doesnt question design and shouldn't have to worry about design flaw that's what Quality control is for.

I've used both traditional longbow and compound bows and YES the level of failure is much greater with a compound but with proper maintenance and inspections the compounds have proven themselves to be just as safe. 

I use fixed blades only,  too many of my friends have had too many issues with mechanical broadheads for me to even think of switching.  And like you I don't collect a cent from anyone to convey my beliefs about the products I use, I only share with others what I see and what I experience.

The wound channel?  A Fixed blade broadhead will send any animal into it's afterlife just as quickly as any mechanical broadhead and the fixed blade broadhead doesn't ruin as much meat as the mechanical... 

The D&DH staff have my utmost respect as does anyone who maintains as high an ethical standing in the hunting world.




Excelllent counter points. But I will challenge on a couple of them.

I would ask what type of mechanicals your friends have had problems with. The rear-opening slip cam is a totally different animal. To me, it is to broadheads what the Glock was to handguns. There were many valid complaints about automatic pistols leveled by revolver users. Glock came forward with a rugged, dependable design that more or less took those concerns away. I think the Rage can do the same thing.

As for the wound channel. The preservation of rib meat is of little concern to me. I want a gory blood trail and a quick recovery. I'll trade 4" of meat for that.

But I should make it clear, if your fixed blades ain't broke, don't fix 'em. I would have never gone away from my old Satelite TNT if I hadn't begun to have problems. I bought a new, faster bow and began to have serious tuning problems. I was all over the place b/c the faster arrow was soaring. It was only in desperation that I switched.

allthingshunting
 
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RE: Mechanicals vs. Fixed Broadheads

Postby allthingshunting » Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:54 am

A Fixed blade broadhead will send any animal into it's afterlife just as quickly as any mechanical broadhead and the fixed blade broadhead doesn't ruin as much meat as the mechanical...

 
Can you explain this.  I don't see how a fixed blade will ruin less meat than a mechanical.  I would think the cutting diameter would dictate this.  If the diameter is the same it would impact the same.  That said, the rage broadheads do have a larger cutting diameter than most fixed blades.  They can accomplish because less comes in contact with the air as it flies until it opens.
 
I too used the snipers and recently switched to the rage broadheads.  I switched from fixed blade to mechanical because of the new 'rear deploy' concept.  This made absolute sense to me.  I also had trouble with tuning when i switched to a newer, faster bow.
 
 

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BruceBruce1959
 
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RE: Mechanicals vs. Fixed Broadheads

Postby BruceBruce1959 » Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:23 am

This is an issue that can go back and forth all day long but there's no need to do that.
The bottom line is this,  the believers have their reasons why they use them and the doubters know why they don't use them.
I'm glad the mechanicals are working for you gentleman, that's really all that matters. 
The mechanicals have moving parts that can fail vs. the fixed blades that won't ever have that sort of problem.
 
but let me point out what may be another issue about the Rage rear deploy. 
Is your arrow traveling SLOW enough to allow the broadhead to fully deploy before it penetrates an animal? 
Take a look at the Rage Video (click thru the stages) to see the entire process of rear deployment before you answer, it's just another issue to think about when using mehchanical types.
But again I'm not trying to tell you not to use them I'm just pointing out where myself, along with many other hunters think there could be issues,  but if you choose to use mechanicals, I will say, "I wish you all nothing but the very best of luck always"..   and this is my last comment regarding the issue.  Good Luck and as always, enjoy happy Safe hunting.
"When you live off the land, Living is Good"

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JPH
 
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RE: Mechanicals vs. Fixed Broadheads

Postby JPH » Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:49 am

ORIGINAL: BruceBruce1959

This is an issue that can go back and forth all day long but there's no need to do that.
The bottom line is this,  the believers have their reasons why they use them and the doubters know why they don't use them.
I'm glad the mechanicals are working for you gentleman, that's really all that matters. 
The mechanicals have moving parts that can fail vs. the fixed blades that won't ever have that sort of problem.

but let me point out what may be another issue about the Rage rear deploy. 
Is your arrow traveling SLOW enough to allow the broadhead to fully deploy before it penetrates an animal? 
Take a look at the Rage Video (click thru the stages) to see the entire process of rear deployment before you answer, it's just another issue to think about when using mehchanical types.
But again I'm not trying to tell you not to use them I'm just pointing out where myself, along with many other hunters think there could be issues,  but if you choose to use mechanicals, I will say, "I wish you all nothing but the very best of luck always"..   and this is my last comment regarding the issue.  Good Luck and as always, enjoy happy Safe hunting.

 
BruceBruce1959, I'm sorry that is your last comment, b/c I think it is a good topic, albeit a worn one. I enjoy the discussion and hope more people will offer their thoughts.
 
You state that a fixed blade cannot fail in the same way as a mechanical. I guess I agree that a fixed bade cannot fail to "open" but it shure can fail. I have seen them shatter upon contact with major bones. They can also plane during flight. I would consider both of those to be major failures.
 
As to your question about the arrow being too fast to deploy before penetration. I think that is a little like saying that a bullet is too fast to mushroom. It does not compute. The forward movement of the arrow and the hyde of the animal are what force the deployment. The faster the arrow, the faster the deployment.
 
I hope you understand that I respect your opinions and the way you have presented them. I am not going up against you or fixed blade broadheads. Instead, I am hoping to inform those who are on the fence about these things. I have had a very good experience with them. 

allthingshunting
 
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RE: Mechanicals vs. Fixed Broadheads

Postby allthingshunting » Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:08 am

quote:

A Fixed blade broadhead will send any animal into it's afterlife just as quickly as any mechanical broadhead and the fixed blade broadhead doesn't ruin as much meat as the mechanical...
 
I am still curious as to why the mechanical will ruin more meat?

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RE: Mechanicals vs. Fixed Broadheads

Postby bowhuntersrave » Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:05 pm

This is always a hot topic. Should one use mechanical or fixed blade. I believe it is preference. We owe it to our game animal to use the best equipment that each one of us has or can afford. I have used expandables in the form of spitfires. I had good luck with them as long as I shot a heavy arrow. I now use Muzzy 3-blade 100's and have for the last 3 years with out one failure due to the broadhead. Shot placement is of course the key. Some expandable heads are good and then there is the junk. When expandable blades break or do not open or open before impact it is always the broadheads fault. The rage as everyone seems to refer to as the greatest mechanical broadhead ever, will at some point fail, not due to the broadhead but due to the shooter. The shooter or us bowhunters are not all experts and do not always hit the boiler room or double lung every animal we shoot. Bottom line is if you are shooting a 2" rage 2-blade you will have a 2" entrance hole and possibly an exit hole as well and supposedly a head that flies like a field point. I have a friend that would play good money to get his to shoot like his field points.
 
There are always pro's and con's, isn't it a matter of choice.
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RE: Mechanicals vs. Fixed Broadheads

Postby Squirrelhawker » Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:17 am

This maybe a rabbit trail but I've been lurking on this thread and it is one of my buttons I guess you could say.
 
How do you suppose, or perhaps somone actually knows, how they test all these new mech designs? I'm assuming that a large portion of design work and penetration tests are accomplished through ballistic materials as opposed to live animals.
 
I wonder if this isn't an inherent "problem" with some mechanical designs right from the get go. I'm sure you can photograph and watch broadheads go through ballistic gel all day long, but I wonder how that equates to a deers chest? Angle, hide, ribs, no ribs, shoulder, no shoulder, abdomen,etc. How the heck do they quantify these variables?
With regard to scientific testing and theory, there has always been a constantly shifting chasm between "invitro" and "invivo" ie, the "laboratory" vs "life."

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