Have any of you heard of Sawtooth Oak?

[peepsight]

Hello,
       I was looking through a magazine called "get in the Game" and it was all about planting and augmenting your hunting area.  Anyway, I have even seen this plant North of where I normally hunt, but could not find it, when I wanted to get a clipping of it. 
        It is called Sawtooth Oak, and I imagine that it get's it's name from the sawtooth like ridges on the leaf, that at first glance you might mistake for a Beech leaf.  Except that it has thin wisps of hair-like threads that come off of each sawtooth.(1/4" long)
         I wanted to get about 25 plants/ saplings and plant them around my area of hunting lands, as they do ripen with a bumper crop every year of big nugget like acorns, and only take about 6 years to mature, which unlike White Oaks, is really quick.  A huge mast yield that is absolutely no good for forestry, so that avenue is pretty well shut down.  Plus they produce every year, unlike red or white oaks.
        The problem is, I have never seen them for less than about $7.00/sapling, and I don't really want to buy more than 50 to get a better price break.
 
        Where can I get them?  What kind of price?[8|]

[Woods Walker]

You can get them here:  http://www.sawtoothoak.com/

But another source says that their acorns are very bitter, and are used as a feed source only after other more preferable sources have run out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sawtooth_Oak

This is also a NON-NATIVE TREE, so I would contact your state Department Of Conservation, and State Department of Conservation before I spend any $$$.

[peepsight]

So why do they praise them as being producers every year?  I mean I know that they probably just want to sell me some trees, but the original source I saw them in, was supposed to be about augmenting the habitat.  And making it more productive with a greater abundance of food for the deer and turkey. 
          I am from PA, and if you knew what kind of growing pains we have gone through during these last 6 years, getting our herd under more balanced control, and giving the deer a fairer chance to get "older", and then gone from seeing 140-200 deer in some areas on the first day, to seeing 6 deer a day in some other areas, you might understand why I am concerned...  It is not that you don't or cannot understand...


     I am just saying, is that I rely on being able to get off of work and go hunting, without wondering too hard, if I will see anything or not on Public land, or farmer's land.  A lot of our land is disappearing because of land development, and also because people are tired of opening their land to hunter's that do not care about anything other than the hunt.

       The farmer's in our area plant huge crops of alfalfa and timothy, and clover, and I just do not see why our deer are not more abundant, than the vast tracks of woodland spaces where nobody seems to provide for the deer.  It is in those places that I hope to provide some sort of deer sanctuary.  That is why I am interested in finding out more about sawtooth oak.  I hope to get into places where there are not as many hunters and provide for the deer, and then also have a place to hunt where they might become more regular homesteader's, if I were to do something. 
          Am I making sense? [8|]
               Trying to figure out how to attract more deer to really inaccessible places.
                 Peepsight

[Woods Walker]

I understand your concern, but you have to be REAL careful about introducing non-native plants of ANY kind into an area.
 
Sawthooth oak is on the red oak side of the Quercus generic family. The spine tipped lobes are a consistant charcteristic of this. Red oaks are known for being considerably more bitter than the white oaks. Deer and other wildlife still eat them, but they usually don't go to them until the white oak acorns are exhausted.
 
What might be a better alternative than spending the cash for a tree that is not only non-native, and maybe is also not best suited for your climatic zone, would be for you to work with the native species that are already there. This would certainly be more economic, and would also give you faster results than planting seedling type oak trees, some of which may take up to a DECADE before it starts to produce mast.
 
The problem with many eastern forests is that they are now in an older phase of plant succession, and many of the better browse species, are either gone, or the vegetation has grown beyond the reach of game. Selective logging would be the ideal way to rejuvenate the area, but I realize that this isn't always an option. Although they may not look much different, forests are continually changing, and the woods that was a deer magnet 10 years ago, may now be almost void of any real significant food sources.
 
What I try and do every time I'm in my hunt are during the off season, is to saw smaller trees half in two, and then bend them over so that the top half of the tree is within reach of the deer. This will also increase the branch and invariably the bud growth (browse). This likewise will work if you carry a hand pruners with you, and you cut the top bud/shoot off a sapling. When you cut the top (or terminal bud) off a tree or bush branch, you then encourage the side (axillary) buds to begin growth. This is why a pine or spruce tree that's been "topped" will then beging to grow like a bush. If you do this with good browse species that would normally grow out of a deer's feeding reach within a few years, you can easily DOUBLE the amount of deer browse on a given tree.
 
To effectively do this type of thing, you need to be able to identify the primary preferred browse species in your area. The local DNR, and/or the Farm Bureau would be a good souce for this.
 
I admire your desire and commitment to habitat improvement, but you don't want to waste your time either. Take the time to learn, and do it right. It'll pay off in the end.

[peepsight]

Yep I get it.  However, the land I am talking about hunting in is not my own. So cutting down trees, is a huge thing for me, and I won't do it to someone else's property; without permission.  I realize that you may not have known that, since from the post's that I have read, almost everyone own's something, or really knows the owner really well, etc.  I am not in that area.
       I was going to go to the owner and offer him/her my services to eliminate their groundhog problem, which is mostly how I start to get permission to hunt a new area, and then I was going to propose that I would plant something's at my own expense to help me in the Deer Hunting season, if I could hunt nearly exclusively on their land for bowhunting.  That way, I get to meet the owner and start a relationship without asking for too much up front, and I get to build the relationship throughout the year, and let him get to know me. 
      Anyway, unless you have relatives around here, hunting ground is getting to be high priced.
         More than I have to pay.
          Anyway, (bitterness),yes I have heard that and read that about Sawtooth, but since there are times in Western Central PA, when the White Oaks don't produce on a consistent basis, I am hoping that everything that I have read about Sawtooth and their bumper crops, from year to year, would be a good source of alternatives to keeping the deer in the woods and not traveling to the nearby farmer's fields for Clover, Timothy, and Alfalfa.   I would rather not spend any money, but I want something that is going to require minimal supervision by me, and become a magnet for deer and turkey.
      I wanted to also plant a few apple trees, not a lot, just a few that would keep the deer in my area in under cover, so that they are not advertising of their presence, so I don't have to worry about other hunters.  Everyone in my part of PA, is accessing farm deer, and I want to eliminate the crowds, and my solution is to renew the habitat of the woods, so that I can find peace in my valley, and put a nice rack on the wall, and meat in my freezer.  I want to do it only with a bow, because rifle hunting has gotten silly and gone from hunting to driving every thing from the area.
         Last year was my last rifle season.  In PA, we now have a concurrent 2 week doe season, and so it is as long as buck season, and now, even if you are on stand, nobody asks, if they can drive your area, they just do it.  Bow hunting is my last source of real hunting, where I can pit myself against the game, not other hunters, and so, I would like to do that where I am able to accomplish this without a great audience, and in a remote section of woods that is hard to get to, means I should not have a problem of being alone.  But, I would gladly share my little paradise away from everyone, if I could attract a few more herbivores to the area. 
       Hence, my interest in Sawtooth Oak, Apple trees, and perhaps some Autumn Olive.  I am still trying to work this out.
          thanks,
           Peepsight

[Goose]

QDMA has a article on these in there oct. issue. Supposed to be fast growing early producers around early mid sept. They drop fast. And they max out at 50 by 20 ft. They start die off after 30 yrs. The acorns are narrow and smaller. They say they can be good but dont recommend alot of them.

[wordbird]

I have about 300 of them on my farm that are from 6-12 years old. Some are just starting to produce and as far as the deer eating them, you can seldom find any on the ground if that tells you anything.