2008 & 2009 Photos - Is this the same buck????

[hunt4ever]

This is a nice buck for the area that I hunt in upstate NY that only protects spikes. The attached photo shows the same buck, I believe. As shown, the October 2008 photos are on the left and the 2009 October photos on the right. Do you think this is the same buck The reasons I believe this is the same buck are (1) the G1's thou G4's are the same shape in 2008 & 2009, just longer in 2009, (2) the 2008 photo in the top left shows a kink in G4 on the buck's left side and the bottom right shows the same for G4. Although, you can't see the kink because of the photo size in the bottom right 2009 photo, on a larger photo you can see it clearly.   Other questions:  (1) Is it common to see a buck stay an 8-pointer from one year to the next  Although, I didn't find his sheds in the area I believe he lives, I quite sure he survived last fall and was still around.  However, I was expecting he would be a 10 pointer this year.  I know that when bucks get to be 5 or 6 years old, they peak out and go the other way, but I don't think this buck is that old.  Next question: (2) How old do you think he is  The system will not allow me to attach a 2nd photo with this post; therefore, I will send a 2nd post which gives you a broad side which may help in aging.  I think he was 3-1/2 in 2008 & 4-1/2 this year; however his body tells me he may be a high end 3-1/2 NOW. and last question: (3) I don't have enough experience to score this buck.  What is your estimated 2008 & 09 score   Additional Notes: These 2008 & 2009 photos were taken in two locations less than 100 yards apart.  The 2009 photos on the right were taken in a brassica & turnip food plot and you can see the turnip stems (white looking sticks) stripped of their leaves.  As of today, they have not really gotten into the brassica very much.  Only one hunter saw this buck briefly last year chasing a doe, therefore, he is very nocturnal, so I figure the only way I will get a crack at him is when he is in full rut which is at least a couple of weeks away. 
Your comments are greatly appreciated,
[size="4"]Tom Mac[/size]

[hunt4ever]

ORIGINAL: hunt4ever

This is a nice buck for the area that I hunt in upstate NY that only protects spikes. The attached photo shows the same buck, I believe. As shown, the October 2008 photos are on the left and the 2009 October photos on the right. Do you think this is the same buck The reasons I believe this is the same buck are (1) the G1's thou G4's are the same shape in 2008 & 2009, just longer in 2009, (2) the 2008 photo in the top left shows a kink in G4 on the buck's left side and the bottom right shows the same for G4. Although, you can't see the kink because of the photo size in the bottom right 2009 photo, on a larger photo you can see it clearly.   Other questions:  (1) Is it common to see a buck stay an 8-pointer from one year to the next  Although, I didn't find his sheds in the area I believe he lives, I quite sure he survived last fall and was still around.  However, I was expecting he would be a 10 pointer this year.  I know that when bucks get to be 5 or 6 years old, they peak out and go the other way, but I don't think this buck is that old.  Next question: (2) How old do you think he is  The system will not allow me to attach a 2nd photo with this post; therefore, I will send a 2nd post which gives you a broad side which may help in aging.  I think he was 3-1/2 in 2008 & 4-1/2 this year; however his body tells me he may be a high end 3-1/2 NOW. and last question: (3) I don't have enough experience to score this buck.  What is your estimated 2008 & 09 score   Additional Notes: These 2008 & 2009 photos were taken in two locations less than 100 yards apart.  The 2009 photos on the right were taken in a brassica & turnip food plot and you can see the turnip stems (white looking sticks) stripped of their leaves.  As of today, they have not really gotten into the brassica very much.  Only one hunter saw this buck briefly last year chasing a doe, therefore, he is very nocturnal, so I figure the only way I will get a crack at him is when he is in full rut which is at least a couple of weeks away. 
Your comments are greatly appreciated,
[size="4"]Tom Mac[/size]

Here is the 2nd photo that I promised in the previous post.  This photo shows a broad side which may help in trying to age this buck.  Comments please and thanks, [size="4"]Tom Mac[/size]

[msbadger]

Hey Mac ...he's a pretty buck....I'd say he's a 3 1/2 year old...as far as scoring ...well I don't do that...but from listening and reading the other posts...I'm going to take a stab at it ..just to see what the others think...120's...
Good luck getting him

[genoabuck]

As far as aging this buck is anyone's guess. He looks at least 3.5. He could be on his way down and very old given he really didn't get bigger from 08 to 09. I would say that buck scores around 110. He doesn't have much for tine length, main beam and inside spread. Any mature animal 3.5 or older is a trophy, especially where we hunt in upstate N.Y.. Good luck and I hope he shows up during daylight for you

[hunt4ever]

Thanks guys for your inputs.  From your inputs, it sounds like maybe he is 110 to 120's.  I have a couple of friends in QDMA that teaches scoring and I am going to ask them, I will let you know. 
Genoabuck, As you said, he could be old & on his way down, but why doesn't his stomach sag like mine Could it be he drinks less beer  lol

[buckhunter21]

Hard to say, but looks like the same deer.....Hm. 

[WayneL]

To me it looks like a different buck. The 2009 rack seems narrower than 2008. I would guess it to be 105-110 but I am not great at scoring on the hoof. 3 1/2 looks right to me. Either way that is a good looking buck. I hope you bag him this year.

[Headrush]

I've killed 2 bucks like that with my bow. Inside their ears, "basket racks" we call them around here. Nice deer but IMO not more than 2 yrs old tops. If you look at his face he's not fully mature yet. His shoulders and chest arent filled out. Give him 2-3 more years and he'll be 190+ lbs field dressed and sporting a far better head set. I don't think they're the same deer either, but I wonder if they might have the same Dad just a year apart.

Looking at WayneL's 9 pinter compared to ths one, I think he shot a 3-4 yr old. compare their faces, and bodies in the photo's and you'll see what I mean. Not to stir things up...just my 2 cents.

Good luck this year everyone!

Bill

[hunt4ever]

[font="times new roman"][size="3"]

ORIGINAL: Headrush

I've killed 2 bucks like that with my bow. Inside their ears, "basket racks" we call them around here. Nice deer but IMO not more than 2 yrs old tops. If you look at his face he's not fully mature yet. His shoulders and chest arent filled out. Give him 2-3 more years and he'll be 190+ lbs field dressed and sporting a far better head set. I don't think they're the same deer either, but I wonder if they might have the same Dad just a year apart.

Looking at WayneL's 9 pinter compared to ths one, I think he shot a 3-4 yr old. compare their faces, and bodies in the photo's and you'll see what I mean. Not to stir things up...just my 2 cents.

Good luck this year everyone!

Bill

Bill, You may be right about being a 2 year old; however, if it is the same buck as last year, which most believe he is, he is at least a 3 YO.  In area I  hunt, Greenwich - Washington County,  IMHO there is no way he was a yearling last year.  Furthermore, if he was a 2 YO last year, he would be a very high end 2 YO, based on past harvests in the area.  He is a "keeper", so the only way we will find out his true age is get his jawbone which I hope to do.

Bill - [/size][/font][font="times new roman"][size="3"]I like you thought that it might be different bucks, but have the same dad just a different year.  If they are different bucks, I would think that is a good possibility.
 [/size][/font]
[font="times new roman"][size="3"]The consensus from this forum and others is that it is the same buck.  However, his antler and mass/weight isn't what one would expect, if he was getting good nutrition. I have a couple of  2009 photos of this buck (I think he is the same buck) and embed the one taken in July and one in Nov.  Since I can only attach one photo, I will I will post the Nov. photo under separate post.  Both photos show a buck under nourished and thinner than what he should be.   I also have other photos of thin deer (does, fawns,  & bucks) which are very disturbing and leads me to believe that I have a nutrition problem.

Not to bore you too much, a little background on the property I hunt is as follows:[/size][/font][font="times new roman"][size="3"]
[/size][/font][font="times new roman"][size="3"]1)   The 300+ acre dairy farm I hunt has been in the family since the mid 1850's and is currently owned and operated by my two cousins.  [/size][/font] [font="times new roman"][size="3"] 2)   Five (5) years it was decided to sell all the dairy cows and concentrate on their Maple Syrup business. As most know, there is very little money for the normal farmer in selling milk.  They have been in the syrup business on a part time basis for over 25 years and now typically produces over 2500 gallons of maple syrup annually and are one of the largest producers of maple syrup in NY State. [/size][/font][/align] [font="times new roman"][size="3"] 3)   Since it is no longer a dairy farm, the 100+ acres of corn, alflier, hay, etc. no longer exist.  What were cultivated fields is now fields just being cut to prevent them growing into useless brush.  Except for a few small food plots that I had planted, these fields now have grass in them with very little quality forage for whitetails.  This is a real retention problem plus herd health resulting in poor fawn retention, low weight, and poor antler growth.   What have I missed[/size][/font][font="times new roman"][size="3"]

To resolve this problem, I am considering planting next Spring a heavy dose of Eagle Brand Forage Soybeans and/or Cow Pies.  This will help the soil plus help doe and fawn development and buck antler growth.  Additionally, once the soybeans and Cow Peas have done their thing, I will replace them with Brassica, Rape, and Foriage and Purple Top Turnips, etc. [/size][/font][font="times new roman"][size="3"]Any other suggestions on what I should plant are more than welcomed [/size][/font] [font="times new roman"][size="3"]Sorry for going on so long, but wanted to present a good picture of the situation so others may weigh in on the problem and possible solution(s). 
Thanks for your patience and happy hunting,
[size="4"]Tom Mac[/size] [/size][/font][font="times new roman"][size="3"][/size][/font][font="times new roman"][size="3"][/size][/font][font="times new roman"][size="3"][/size][/font]
[font="times new roman"][size="3"]
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[hunt4ever]

ORIGINAL: Headrush

I've killed 2 bucks like that with my bow. Inside their ears, "basket racks" we call them around here. Nice deer but IMO not more than 2 yrs old tops. If you look at his face he's not fully mature yet. His shoulders and chest arent filled out. Give him 2-3 more years and he'll be 190+ lbs field dressed and sporting a far better head set. I don't think they're the same deer either, but I wonder if they might have the same Dad just a year apart.

Looking at WayneL's 9 pinter compared to ths one, I think he shot a 3-4 yr old. compare their faces, and bodies in the photo's and you'll see what I mean. Not to stir things up...just my 2 cents.

Good luck this year everyone!

Bill

[font="times new roman"][size="3"]Bill, You may be right about being a 2 year old; however, if it is the same buck as last year, which most believe he is, he is at least a 3 YO.  In area I  hunt, Greenwich - Washington County,  IMHO there is no way he was a yearling last year.  Furthermore, if he was a 2 YO last year, he would be a very high end 2 YO, based on past harvests in the area.  He is a "keeper", so the only way we will find out his true age is get his jawbone which I hope to do.

Bill,
[/size][/font][font="times new roman"][size="3"]I like you thought that it might be different bucks, but have the same dad just a different year.  If they are different bucks, I would think that is a good possibility.
 [/size][/font]
[font="times new roman"][size="3"]The consensus from this forum and others is that it is the same buck.  However, his antler and mass/weight isn't what one would expect, if he was getting good nutrition. I have a couple of  2009 photos of this buck (I think he is the same buck) and embed the one taken in July and one in Nov.  Since I can only attach one photo, I will I will post the Nov. photo under separate post.  Both photos show a buck under nourished and thinner than what he should be.   I also have other photos of thin deer (does, fawns,  & bucks) which are very disturbing and leads me to believe that I have a nutrition problem.

Not to bore you too much, a little background on the property I hunt is as follows:[/size][/font][font="times new roman"][size="3"]
[/size][/font][font="times new roman"][size="3"]1)   The 300+ acre dairy farm I hunt has been in the family since the mid 1850's and is currently owned and operated by my two cousins.  [/size][/font] [font="times new roman"][size="3"] 2)   Five (5) years it was decided to sell all the dairy cows and concentrate on their Maple Syrup business. As most know, there is very little money for the normal farmer in selling milk.  They have been in the syrup business on a part time basis for over 25 years and now typically produces over 2500 gallons of maple syrup annually and are one of the largest producers of maple syrup in NY State. [/size][/font][/align] [font="times new roman"][size="3"] 3)   Since it is no longer a dairy farm, the 100+ acres of corn, alflier, hay, etc. no longer exist.  What were cultivated fields is now fields just being cut to prevent them growing into useless brush.  Except for a few small food plots that I had planted, these fields now have grass in them with very little quality forage for whitetails.  This is a real retention problem plus herd health resulting in poor fawn retention, low weight, and poor antler growth.   What have I missed[/size][/font][font="times new roman"][size="3"]

To resolve this problem, I am considering planting next Spring a heavy dose of Eagle Brand Forage Soybeans and/or Cow Pies.  This will help the soil plus help doe and fawn development and buck antler growth.  Additionally, once the soybeans and Cow Peas have done their thing, I will replace them with Brassica, Rape, and Foriage and Purple Top Turnips, etc. [/size][/font][font="times new roman"][size="3"]Any other suggestions on what I should plant are more than welcomed [/size][/font] [font="times new roman"][size="3"]Sorry for going on so long, but wanted to present a good picture of the situation so others may weigh in on the problem and possible solution(s). 
Thanks for your patience and happy hunting,
[size="4"]Tom Mac[/size] [/size][/font][font="times new roman"][size="3"][/size][/font][font="times new roman"][size="3"][/size][/font][font="times new roman"][size="3"][/size][/font]
[font="times new roman"][size="3"]
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