Crossbow Restrictions

Legnip
 
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RE: Crossbow Restrictions

Postby Legnip » Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:03 am

ORIGINAL: retch sweeny

[blockquote]
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[/align][font=arial]Thankfully for the bowhunters of this state, I am the legislative liaison for the nations largest and oldest state bowhunting association and this is something myself and others have been working on for a very long time........ [;)][/font]
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Then maybe you are the wrong person for the job. You're obviously passionate about traditional hunting, but closed minded about other ways of doing things.
From those who much is given, much is expected

Legnip
 
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RE: Crossbow Restrictions

Postby Legnip » Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:11 am

ORIGINAL: umpiremark

"Nearly all the bowhunters are gun hunters. Our attitudes run parallel. When the WI DNR surveys deer hunters, it surveys both gun and bowhunters."



True, but a lot of gun hunters are against bow hunting. I hunted in a camp that was like that. I was the only bowhunter in the group of +/-10 hunters.
From those who much is given, much is expected

retch sweeny
 
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RE: Crossbow Restrictions

Postby retch sweeny » Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:37 am

ORIGINAL: Legnip
Then maybe you are the wrong person for the job. You're obviously passionate about traditional hunting, but closed minded about other ways of doing things.

 
 
I think that means I have the perfect resume for the job. LOL at closed minded. There is the right way and the wrong way to do things. We are currently doing things the right way in WI in terms of legal weapons allowed within the archery deer season. The other weapon has been discussed to death. Every avenue considered and pondered upon. You are unhappy about the outcome and new to the discussion so you label it as closed minded.[;)] [/align] 

retch sweeny
 
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RE: Crossbow Restrictions

Postby retch sweeny » Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:44 am

ORIGINAL: Legnip

True, but a lot of gun hunters are against bow hunting. I hunted in a camp that was like that. I was the only bowhunter in the group of +/-10 hunters.



Then I know a great way to make them like bowhunters.............. Lets allow crossbows for all so the bow season kill goes up and even more bucks are taken before the gun hunters get their chance in the woods. Sometimes I just kill me. LOL
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[/align][font=arial]Since it would appear that those in favor of the boltgun cant seem to find the questions I left above, I will make it easy to find them.[/font]
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[/align][font=arial]1. Why is the crossbow currently illegal in WI? (and I mean really..... Why is it illegal?) (Typically, this is an emotional reply that has nothing to do why the law is what it is.) Try to refrain from that and explain why the crossbow is not legal for the able bodied in the archery deer season.


2. What has changed about the real reasons why crossbows are illegal in WI that suddenly makes them a good idea for WI now ?
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[font=arial]3. Why is the draw lock currently illegal in WI? [/font]
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[font=arial]4. Who is excluded form archery in WI, since there are no laws prohibiting crossbows from archery?[/font] 
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[font=arial]5. Under the current statutes, who is excluded from Bowhunting in WI? [/font]
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[/align][font=arial]6. If crossbow supporters want to avoid the drawing of a bow at the time of the shot and want a bow held at full draw to eliminate the human powered (and very important) aspect of taking game at close quarters, why would do they not first petition for making draw locks legal in WI as this sort of change would allow them keep their current bow? [/font]
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[/align][font=arial]7. Estimate how many additional hunters (that didn't bow hunt before) would hunt the WI archery deer season if crossbows were made legal? I hear about all the extra revenue that the WI DNR would get if the law were to change (as if that were a valid reason to change the law) but as of yet, nobody has been able to put together any sort of impact study. Please provide participation estimates.[/font] 
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[/align][font=arial]8. Because the deer herd in WI is the lowest its been in 2 decades and gun hunters are calling for a shortening of the archery deer season and removing the antlerless tag from from bowhunters statewide and all hunters are prohibited from harvesting antlerless deer in 19 units this year and all of this has taken place with the currently available (legal) weapons (without crossbows) proving the current weapons are more than capable of controlling the deer herd, do you think adding additional hunters killing additional deer before the gun deer season will lead to further prohibitions and restrictions on bowhunters since it's already happening without crossbows being legal?[/font] 
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[/align][font=arial]9. Are you aware that archery deer licenses in WI are not suffering losses in sales and that they are at near record levels showing recruitment and retention of bowhunters here is solid and strong?[/font] 
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[font=arial]10. If at some point in the future, crossbows are made legal to use in the WI archery deer season, do you favor a measure that allows for demographics to be gathered allowing the WI DNR to capture the impacts, participation, success rates and other data for crossbow users? A separate crossbow license, stamp, registration, etc?[/font]
 

[/align]I dont understand what the fear is in answering these questions. If your argument is sound, you should have no problem answering. [;)]
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retch sweeny
 
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RE: Crossbow Restrictions

Postby retch sweeny » Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:05 pm

The silence is very telling. [:D]

Dan Salmon
 
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RE: Crossbow Restrictions

Postby Dan Salmon » Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:41 pm

The smug, know it all attitude is repelling. [:D]

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umpiremark
 
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RE: Crossbow Restrictions

Postby umpiremark » Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:21 am

Retch,
Since you think that you’re making good points along the way here, let’s resume this argument – of which to date, you haven’t a clue to what my stance has been on this thread. In your tiny head you believe I want to abort all the current laws and insert crossbow hunting, now. Whereas, my point all along (repeated for the visually impaired ) MY POINT ALL ALONG, for the last time – and again for a final time in which you won’t understand the concept – you show supporting data; I’ve conceded that. But my illustration of the colored balls and the dark box, clearly illustrates why you do not have conclusive data. My illustration is simple Statistics, a college 101 course; simple in its explanation. All you have is data, none of which is conclusive.

Let’s be clear about one thing going forward. You represent the WBH Association, not the bow hunters of WI. The WBH Association is not a bow hunter’s advocate; however it is a for-profit benefactor to protecting and endearing laws which benefit the WBH and their members, not WI bow hunters at large. The WBH will back - as well as fight for - those laws which are important to their membership, without regard to the body of bow hunters in WI as a whole. Let’s be honest and clear about that.

Your comparison that the DNR “listening sessions” and MAJORITY of respondents are similar to any general election of governor is weak at best, lame at most. In a general election, every township, village, town and city offer the opportunity for those that “do care and want to participate” the opportunity to vote (called voting stations). If one chooses not to vote, that is their individual choice, but the means in which to vote is fairly presented to all who are eligible. The DNR listening sessions are scarce in number and remote in locations providing neither the means nor the opportunity for all who “care to and want to participate” to do so. Again, you fail to see the legitimacy of having conclusive data. If by some miracle you could grasp that, allowing the majority to vote their stance is different than claiming those that “did participate” and “did respond” as the majority. When the opportunities to hear the voice of the majority are limited in scope by the failure to provide ample opportunity, results can only be skewed and thus false (as a result of the WBH comprising the highest numbers in attendance).

Again, you talk about the exclusion of cross bows by the “voting majority” (those votes that count {your words}), I remind you that in ratifying vote after ratifying vote, most all of the southern states in the mid 1800’s ratified slavery and voted to succeed from the Union. Not always are “votes that count” in favor of the popular majority, nor humanely correct in their assumptions. Just because the power to cast votes has been placed on the few who represent the many, cannot always guarantee that the many have been adequately heard. The WBH, with their legislative arm and for-profit rallying abilities to “stuff” the ballot boxes with their votes, usually wins out when the many cannot be heard. Let’s also be clear about that.

So, here are my answers to your ridiculous questions, that have no bearing on the point at hand – the one I’m trying to make – that you have supporting data only, and not conclusive data. When you figure out the difference between both subsets of data types, let me know. We can talk.

1) Crossbows are illegal in WI because that currently is the law. Why is it illegal for a player to grab a face mask and slam the runner to the ground? Because currently that’s the law/rule. Because something is currently forbidden via rules or laws, that doesn’t mean a shift in hunter sentiment can’t change the current law.
2) Nothing has changed. Crossbows are becoming legal in more states across the nation, providing for better technology, increased sales and exposure. Cross bows, long bows compound bows, guns, muzzle loaders, rifles and shot guns all remain viable weapons in the ability to take and harvest deer and other big game animals.
3) See #1.
4) Convicted felons.
5) See #4.
6) Attempting to legalize both could be a possibility. But since crossbows of every size, type and associated accessories are readily available to the sportsman, crossbows would be the most logical avenue.
7) I doubt non-hunters or non bow hunters would turn out in droves buying bow licenses that they previously avoided because crossbows are now legal. If any, I would guess the increase in hunters with crossbows would be in the single digit percentages. No data you have supports any conclusion, here.
8) This is really what your war is about right? What perceptions of an increase in “hunting” of all kinds might jeopardize what you consider “your” bow hunting rights?
9) Yes, I am. So?
10) I favor a continual and unbiased examination of all facts, trends and statistics that allows for an enjoyable hunt for anyone who participates, wants to participate and wants to harvest deer in the manner in which their ethics, conscience and the law would allow, at that time. I favor a regulatory department who is open, not swayed by strong arm influence and are willing to learn, grow and adapt in an ever changing environment.

Again, I reiterate. None of these questions have any relevancy to my point all along that the WBH Association has supportive data without having conclusive data. You fail to acknowledge that point and I tire of trying to get you to understand that one – and single - point on this thread.
One day my ship will come in!! My luck, I'll be at the airport.

SCHINK
 
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RE: Crossbow Restrictions

Postby SCHINK » Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:10 am

I wish I could animate a sexy girl holding a big poster board with a big number on it.....DING DING....NEXT ROUND  [:D]
HAPPINESS IS A BLOODY TAILGATE

Wolf River Hunter
 
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RE: Crossbow Restrictions

Postby Wolf River Hunter » Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:30 am

How about a mental exception....as in if you are craziest enough to bow hunt when it is 1 degree out you can use a crossbow.
I'd rather drag out a 4 pointer with my father than a 10 pointer alone.

Legnip
 
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RE: Crossbow Restrictions

Postby Legnip » Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:08 pm

ORIGINAL: retch sweeny

The silence is very telling. [:D]

 
???Silence??? Do you get a visual response from listening to the radio?
 
A. Full time job
B. Four kids to take care of.
C. Your post isn't worth responding too.
D. All of the above.
 
 
 
From those who much is given, much is expected

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