Earn a buck Il style

Dan Salmon
 
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Re: Earn a buck Il style

Postby Dan Salmon » Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:44 am

Jslotter wrote:I really don't think the deer population is as great as whoever says it is. For sure not in my unit. where I hunt a couple of different sections of land. I disagree that we need to be killing more antlerless deer.


And that's exactly why he's pushing for more control by landowners. In his mind and on his land, there are too many deer. He's very much in the minority in the state and one of the reasons why I see the DNR being very opposed to allowing more landowner control. If they give up control to landowners, then they have no recourse other than to rape the public land areas to try to get to where the population goals are mandated to be.

Ostermann
 
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Re: Earn a buck Il style

Postby Ostermann » Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:54 pm

I disagree on a quota system for the kill. However, limit the doe tags in some of the units since not all areas have the so-called "huge" populations. A decent population estimate would help.

I also disagree on the landowner perspective. At my in-laws farm, roughly 600 acres (100 acres maybe total is wooded, brush, marsh grass), it would be hard to get an estimate of the herd. Here are some recent stats:
-2009 - 2 bucks were shot.
-2010 - A girl shot 3 bucks in an hour (2 bucks were following a doe). I shot a 6 pt. I saw 2 more bucks. About 7 deer total seen.
-2011 - I think maybe 1 buck was shot. I shot 2 does. I had seen 8 other deer (total 10), mainly does and a button buck mixed in.

My thoughts: EAB helped thin the herd out prior to 2010. Other hunters passed up does and the herd made a little bit of a rebound last year. The does I had seen are somewhat of a local herd to the area so they may be there today but not tomorrow.

Sometimes the good Lord blesses me with a deer so I take the opportunity to harvest each one I can. If I take the numbers, how many tags should be used? 5, 10, 20?

bullwinkle
 
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Re: Earn a buck Il style

Postby bullwinkle » Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:29 pm

Believe it or not guys you can have too many deer. With the efforts myself and neighbors have done I really believe we can't control them. If we shoot one another move in from less attractive habitate. On one parcel I hunt I know roughly what was taken on 600 acres around me last year - 30 bucks - only really one monster in the 160's and at least 35 does. That is what was killed!!!! That I know and I bet I don't know all.

The DNR forester has been on my property and asked how many free doe tags I would like. The problem is resistering deer and dropping them off at food banks is a 2 hour job for me and makes it almost impossible.

I would like changes to help me manage my property, period. I think controls should be put on public lands because people abuse it. There is one group by me that only sits and takes trophy animals on their own personal land and drive public land during the middle of the day with a brown is down goal - this is just wrong

bullwinkle
 
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Re: Earn a buck Il style

Postby bullwinkle » Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:05 pm

Dan - How we define cull deer are ones that will most likely not become trophy. All are 3+ years of age. We believe before this age you really can't tell. For example, last year we had 3 bucks on the cull list:

1. A 3 year old, 17" wide 6ptr. Nice deer. We ended up shooting this one. Weighed 180lb dressed. He most likely would have never produced the 10+ points to score well.

2. We had a 6 ptr with 4 nice points on one side and a cow horn ugly fork on the other. It must have been wounded. He was on our cull list because of his age and deformity.

3. We had a 3 year old 9tpr that actually was quite visible and seemed to like to be photographed - he just had an ugly side. I actually hope he made it through the winter, he may be a very interesting non typical this year. We had him on the cull just because his right antler was so ugly no one would have mounted him

We run something like 10 cameras and have almost all of the bucks we shoot on film. With Wisconsin's current system for buck tags, filling yours with one of these bucks is not very attractive. I have let bucks on our cull list walk in prior years just because I didn't want to fill my tag. If I had another buck tag it would make my fall experience more enjoyable - increase the number of deer I would shoot. The DNR wants us to shoot more deer. I would gladly shoot up to 3-5 does to get this tag if that would help.

As for registering does. Why do we do it? Is the DNR worried people will shoot too many does? Where I have property, anyone that wants a deer to live on, just shoots them anyways - no one ever knows. Who are we kidding? Doesn't the DNR want more does shot anyways? Quit registering does. If they don't trust the hunters, make them continue to resister the bucks. I promise I will fill all my doe tags if they quit making me waste 1 hour of my time and a lot of work dragging them to a gas station.

Dan Salmon
 
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Re: Earn a buck Il style

Postby Dan Salmon » Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:45 pm

Bullwinkle,

That's not the right attitude. If you actually know of people that poach, it makes you no better than them if you're not reporting it. I don't personally believe that there are lots of people out doing it and the ones that I have heard of were reported.

In my opinion, your attitude that a doe isn't worth the time or effort is exactly what is wrong with deer hunting since its commercialization. It's also the reason your acquaintances and many others rape public land like they do.

The first step in fixing all of this is to make a deer, any deer, worth exactly what it is worth, the experience of natural happenings in the woods, the value of life and the consequences/rewards of decisions a person makes. Hunting teaches all of these things, but they don't teach that when the only goal is to out do the next guy.

Then it is only a contest and it doesn't matter how we get there, all that matters is who wins. That, to me, seems to be exactly where we are.

Ostermann
 
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Re: Earn a buck Il style

Postby Ostermann » Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:11 pm

Call me old-fashioned but I like registering deer at the station. It's a chance to see what is shot and hear the stories. I think it is good to have the physical proof and not a call-in/computer register deal.

Also, the lessons I learned come from my Dad hunting in the 70's and 80's before I hunted and prior to me joining the service. You could only shoot 2 deer. 1 either sex with bow, 1 with gun (buck or if you got lucky, antlerless choice). Limited tags meant that any deer shot was a trophy. The herd maybe wasn't as big but could have been kept a little bit more in check with a few more choice permits for gun season.

Fast forward to recent years of T-zone, EAB, CWD, more interest in the habitat, QDMA, multiple tags. Like I said, for $20 I can buy 10 antlerless tags. I was lucky to get a choice permit 2 years in a row in the late 80's!!!!!!!

Ostermann
 
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Re: Earn a buck Il style

Postby Ostermann » Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:22 pm

Also,I think Dan hit a spot about the deer being worth something. In 2010 I shot a small doe on Sunday of opening weekend of gun season on the 20 acres of land I own around Stevens Point, which is also bordered by public land. I kind of felt guilty because it wasn't a big deer and it happened kind of fast. I didn't want to spend the $75 to get it butchered so I ended up taking it to my in-laws and butchered it there with my Dad and wife. It is still a trophy to me because of several things: I shot it on my property, I did it alone (my Dad is usually out with me during gun season), I shot it about 1:45 p.m. in the drizzling rain, my Dad was there in town and my wife and kids too.

Even registering a doe is part of hunting. There is a list of several things I have seen and done but that is part of it. Cherish each deer you shoot because if we get the mind set of, "it's just a doe," our kids and the future of hunting will think that it has to score XXXX inches or else you are a crappy deer hunter.

bullwinkle
 
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Re: Earn a buck Il style

Postby bullwinkle » Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:37 pm

Dan - the reason I don't report them is because they need the deer to live on - they eat them. I don't have the heart to call in this type of behavior in. Pretty cold hearted to do what you are suggesting. I spend a lot of time and money on deer, they are technically stealing from all of us but they need it. If they didn't do this they would either get it from the govt another way or steal something else.

Also, like it or not - you can get too many deer. I have bought into the QDM management principles. I also am the caretaker of the property I own and need to balance the herd size with regeneration and tree growth. The DNR offered me as many tags as I want because the deer are eating themselves out of house and home. Last year I planted 6 acres for them and they ate everything. This year I will have 15-16 just to feed them. I respect and eat every deer I shoot. Normally my family and I eat 5-7 year. You are jumping to a pretty harsh conclusion by saying I don't respect the deer. I really should shoot 15-20 year to keep the population in balance on my properties. It is too much work with the current rules and with earn a buck gone, I am not getting much help from the neighbors. I don't have an easy way to control them now - that is all I am looking for. I have not hunted public land for 20 years. I don't like what some people do on them because they ruin it for their fellow citizens and the neighbors of these properties. I also have seen a reduction in antler size with earn a buck gone which bothers me since I get a thrill with the bigger deer. We will see what happens this year if the trend down continues.

You all are misreading me and my intentions. The difference is I have a different perspective - I have too many deer and no good way to deal with them and maintain a fun hunting environment for my family.

By the way, it better start raining soon or my deer will be eating weeds and browse again this year -

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kellory
 
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Re: Earn a buck Il style

Postby kellory » Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:01 pm

bullwinkle, If you want to be big hearted about poaching, and yet you have too many deer, then the solution seems obvious. Why not shoot more, and gift them with venison? Then you would have less of a problem, and they would not have to be breaking the law. It would of course be more work for you, but perhaps a trade of labor would work in your favor. Could you put them to work assisting you with the prep work, planting, clearing land, trimming trees, fixing fences, moving hay bales, painting, or setting stands in exchange for your added labor of checking the does in? No laws to be broken, no mouths go un-filled. Rather than turn a blind eye, could you help them? Or allow them to help you?
The only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker is observation. All the same data is present for both. The rest is understanding what you are seeing.

Dan Salmon
 
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Re: Earn a buck Il style

Postby Dan Salmon » Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:43 pm

I guess that I just don't get it Bullwinkle.

Maybe if I put it in another context.

What would you do if you caught them stealing one of your tree stands?

I mean hell, they need to eat, and they could probably sell it for enough to go buy some food, right? Why aren't they out shooting cows? They're a hell of a lot easier to find and there sure is more meat on one of 'em?

It is not cold hearted, its called tough love. There are plenty of programs in this country aimed at helping those without enough. And enough fraud to make a person cross-eyed, but I digress. It's not surf and turf or caviar, but it's the healthy basics and that's all a person needs, right?

Don't get me wrong either. There are genuinely people that need help and in my experience they are proud and wouldn't take anything that isn't theirs without putting some effort into paying/working for it outright. They would be standing right next to me in my assessment of the situation too.

Getting back to your riches on your land. You are correct there can be too many deer. You state that the DNR has given you tags to kill more deer, have you offered anyone else to come in and shoot extra doe from your land with these tags? I don't know the rules for landowner tags as I've never had the opportunity, but wouldn't they then be the ones that would have to go register the deer? Leaving you from having to go out of your way to do it?

It sounds like you have neighbors like a lot of everyone else in Wisconsin, they like to shoot the big bucks, but don't want to carry the water to make the big bucks happen. They should just be there where I shot that big buck when I was 12 and have been sitting in the same spot for the past 30 years and haven't seen a deer since. Gotta be the DNR's fault, they've killed too many deer.

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