When you really think about it

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Woods Walker
 
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RE: When you really think about it

Postby Woods Walker » Thu Jul 09, 2009 3:58 am

ORIGINAL: retch sweeny

[font=arial]Woods walker, this seems like some convoluted and round about way to justify why gun/bow hybrids should be allowed into archery seasons. If your stance has to rely on such tactics to muster a point, I suggest that your not standing on firm ground in the first place. Treestands................. Ladderstands.............. Debris blinds.......................Pop up blinds................... Tree slings................... Pogo sticks and trampolines are not the issue so why don't you just go for the big reveal and wow us with what you have obviously been bursting to say. [/font]
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[/align][font=arial]I would add a big AH HA!!! (or Tada!) at the end and then you can you do the "I got ya!" dance. LOL .Spill it already. What could pop up blinds possible have to do with gun/bow hybrids in the archery seasons? It won't matter what my answer is because your not really interested in my answer, you are just looking for a way to change the subject. Get on with it already. [:D][/font]
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HA! Retch, you have no point, other than to want to pontificate to others about what kind of weapon they should use, with no basis for your argument than other than your claimed ability to see into other men's hearts and souls, and a personal perception about what constitutes a "bow".
 
You don't like crossbows for healthy people during archery season. It's your OPINION. FINE! DON'T USE ONE!
 
You believe that a crossbow is not a bow at all, but a firearm/bow hybrid. It's your opinion. FINE! DON'T USE ONE!
 
You know what? NO ONE'S STOPPING YOU! Isn't that great? You have FREE CHOICE in the matter. Now......how about those who DO choose to use a crossbow, and who DON'T believe like you do that it's not a real bow? Should they not have the same freedom? And what other weapons or related decisions are YOU going to make for US? Why you, other than your psychic powers? [;)]
 
Finally, I'll answer your request even though you won't honor mine.
 
"Both [stick and compound bows] have to be drawn and held by the muscle power of the archer at the time of the shot and in the presence of game. Those two attributes make archery and Bowhunting what it is."
 
Okay then, so what makes bowhunting what it is, is the fact that you have to draw and hold the bow in the presence of game. This IS a challenge, and I agree with that. But shoot through ground blinds eliminate the challenge angle of it by completely masking the movement of the bowhunter, so that part of the equation is now moot. I guess you would then also agree that ONLY handicapped hunters should be able to use shoot through blinds then too? Why would it NOT be OK for the crossbow to have this advantage, while it would be OK for the other bows to have it?
 
That leaves you with only two reasons why crossbows=bad.
 
1. They LOOK somewhat like a firearm. Opinion.
 
2. While you still have to draw a crossbow, you don't have to hold all the draw weight after that. Just like a compound, which only holds 20% more than a crossbow. Fact. So what happens when compound technology creates a bow that only holds 10% or 5%?  Are you going to be making that decision for us too?
 
Ultimately, we're going to have to agree to disagree.
Hunt Hard,

Kill Swiftly,

Waste Nothing,

Offer No Apologies.....

>>>--------------------------------->
NRA Endowment Life Member

retch sweeny
 
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RE: When you really think about it

Postby retch sweeny » Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:24 am

[font=arial]That's it?????. We waited for that? Good gravy man! And I thought you were going to have something valid to add. No back to your hangup on % of holding weight. I don't care if they get to 99.5% let-off, A bowhunter has to draw back that 60 or 70 pound bow at 60 or 70 pounds. He still has to draw that much weight. While your hung up on the final holding weight, you forget that they still have to draw ALL the weight back with human strength at the time of the kill. THAT my good friend IS the heart of bowhunting.[/font][/align][font=arial][/font] [/align][font=arial]Flipping off the safety and bending your index finger does not an archer make. LOL. Your a scrappy guy with a lot of heart for continuing to return for these lessons. You will come around to the right side of the issue if we continue these sessions. Ok, so now that we have established what is and what is NOT a bow and what makes an archer/bowhunter, I'm sure you must still have some issues to overcome until you get your mind right. What else ya got? I'm happy to show you the light. [:)][:)][/font][/align]

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Woods Walker
 
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RE: When you really think about it

Postby Woods Walker » Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:26 am

HA! Keep dreaming retch! [:D]  And I noticed that you didn't address the point, and that 'splains a lot!
 
BTW, what kind of wood is your selfbow?
Hunt Hard,

Kill Swiftly,

Waste Nothing,

Offer No Apologies.....

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Squirrelhawker
 
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RE: When you really think about it

Postby Squirrelhawker » Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:42 am

ORIGINAL: retch sweeny

It seems that name calling is all the other side has. I posted the information but some can't handle it. That's cool, It seems it's pretty easy to rock their world. Crossbows have no place in an an archery season for all the reasons I posted in the first post and I did it without name calling but just supplying the self evident facts.

 
Retch.
 
I'm not sure what your definition of "facts" are, but those adorable pictures with commentary were not it.

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RE: When you really think about it

Postby Squirrelhawker » Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:49 am

ORIGINAL: retch sweeny

[font=arial] A bowhunter has to draw back that 60 or 70 pound bow at 60 or 70 pounds. He still has to draw that much weight. While your hung up on the final holding weight, you forget that they still have to draw ALL the weight back with human strength at the time of the kill. THAT my good friend IS the heart of bowhunting.[/font]
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Really? That's it? That is the heart of bowhunting? Just drawing the bow?
Holy crap! 20 odd years in the art and I had no idea. Retch, you are one insightful dude

retch sweeny
 
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RE: When you really think about it

Postby retch sweeny » Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:50 am

[font=arial][font="times new roman"][size=100]"I noticed tyhat you didn't address the point, and that 'splains a lot! "[/font][/size][/font][/align][font=arial][font="times new roman"][size=100][/font][/size][/font] [/align][font=arial][font="times new roman"][size=100]Changing the subject away from the gun/bow hybrid discussion seems a waist so I agree, it does say alot. It says that your standing on shifting sand and that you seek to dodge and weave rather than  come to grips with the right side of the issue. I have faith that you will get this right if you and I spend a bit more time together. [/font][/align]
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"BTW, what kind of wood is your selfbow? "
[/font][/align][font="times new roman"][/font] [/align][font="times new roman"][/font][font=arial]While again, that is not the issue, I will say that the real and honest to God bow that I build is made of a few diff woods and is NOT a selfbow. It is a build up. The heart of the bow is Maple from a tree my Father cut down over 40 years ago. Some of that wood became the slats that held up the box spring on the bed I slept on as a young boy back on the farm. The bed is gone but I saved the wood. The limbs are made of maple as well with fiberglass laminations. I used the rack from one of the bucks I killed to make antler limb tips. The rest of the woods were purchased from a local lumber store. I built the bow form from douglas fir. I glued up the bow in an oven box I built from plywood and an old closet door. I made my first bow back in 1988 (the year Fred Bear died) This bow was actually made for my Son but Highschool sports kept him from the woods so I used it last year.[/font][/align] [/align][font=arial]You can see the entire bow making process as well as the arm guard and finger tab at this link.[/font][/align] [/align][font=arial]http://wibowhunters.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=diy&action=display&thread=81[/font][/align][font=arial][/font] [/align][font=arial][/font] [/align]and part 2 at this link.[/align] [/align]http://wibowhunters.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=diy&action=display&thread=227[/align] [/align]The homade broadheads at this link[/align] [/align]http://wibowhunters.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=diy&action=display&thread=72[/align] [/align]The quiver at this link[/align] [/align]http://wibowhunters.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=diy&action=display&thread=415[/align] [/align]Arrows at this link[/align] [/align]http://wibowhunters.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=diy&action=display&thread=64[/align] [/align]homamde camo at this link[/align] [/align]http://wibowhunters.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=diy&action=display&thread=71[/align] [/align]Homade tipi at this link[/align] [/align]http://wibowhunters.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=diy&action=display&thread=543[/align] [/align]Homade knives at this link.[/align] [/align]http://wibowhunters.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=diy&action=display&thread=66[/align] [/align] [/align]
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Squirrelhawker
 
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RE: When you really think about it

Postby Squirrelhawker » Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:52 am

Hey, all you gun hunters, remember, pulling the trigger, that is the heart of deer shooting. That one's all mine. You can use it if ya want

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69Viking
 
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RE: When you really think about it

Postby 69Viking » Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:58 am

ORIGINAL: retch sweeny

[font=arial]That's it?????. We waited for that? Good gravy man! And I thought you were going to have something valid to add. No back to your hangup on % of holding weight. I don't care if they get to 99.5% let-off, A bowhunter has to draw back that 60 or 70 pound bow at 60 or 70 pounds. He still has to draw that much weight. While your hung up on the final holding weight, you forget that they still have to draw ALL the weight back with human strength at the time of the kill. THAT my good friend IS the heart of bowhunting.[/font][/align][font=arial][/font] [/align][font=arial]Flipping off the safety and bending your index finger does not an archer make. LOL. Your a scrappy guy with a lot of heart for continuing to return for these lessons. You will come around to the right side of the issue if we continue these sessions. Ok, so now that we have established what is and what is NOT a bow and what makes an archer/bowhunter, I'm sure you must still have some issues to overcome until you get your mind right. What else ya got? I'm happy to show you the light. [:)][:)][/font][/align]


Retch my crossbow takes 175 pounds and two hands and a foot to draw back. So what if it locks back, that is not much different than a compound bow with 80% let off. I also own a compound bow and for the life of me I can't believe people are so blind when it comes to crossbows. In some situations they are more difficult to hunt with than a compound bow, they each have their advantages. A compound bow and a crossbow both shoot an arrow using a string to propel the arrow, nothing like a gun.

We will continue to agree to disagree that is obvious but I think what you see is that sooner or later the crossbow manufacturers will win out and crossbows will be allowed during archery season, it's just another form of archery equipment. Don't believe me? Check out what's for sale at places like Basspro - 26 Recurves & Longbows for sale, 30 Compound bows for sale, and 41 Crossbows for sale, it's only a matter of time. Companies wouldn't be making all these crossbows if they weren't selling and if they didn't think the crossbow would eventually make into the archery season. Funny thing is when you go to Basspro and look for crossbows guess where you find them, in the Archery section, imagine that!

retch sweeny
 
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RE: When you really think about it

Postby retch sweeny » Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:07 am

[font=arial]"[font="times new roman"][size=100]So what if it locks back, that is not much different than a compound bow with 80% let off. [/font][/size][/font]
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[/align][font=arial]So what??? LOL You could have had somebody else cock that machine back a year ago and simply pull it out and squeeze the trigger when aimed at a deer yet you have convinced yourself that that is Bowhunting. The rest of us still have our facilities about us and know that is not Bowhunting.[/font]
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[/align][font=arial]Again with the percentage of let off. A real Bowhunter has to haul all 70 pounds back with human power before any let off occurs. I can't for the life of me understand how some here want to overlook that very important distinction unless of course they don't want to have an honest discussion. [/font]
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[/align][font=arial]Lets go back to yesterdays lesson. [font="times new roman"][size=100]If I put a 1000 pounds of weight on a barbell and hoist it over my head, I am a power lifter and most likely the strongest man alive. If however, I suspend that 1000 pound bar from the ceiling with chains and step underneath it and wrap my hands around the bar, should I be considered a power lifter and the strongest man alive. You would argue that the difference between stored energy and muscle power is not enough to separate the two. Sure, I'm holding 0% vs 100% but lets not get hung up on the % of holding weight................ Right? [:D]

The two are vastly different and have no place being compared or allowed to be participate equally. The same holds true for a bow and these gun/bow hybrids. Sure, you can take game with both but only one is Bowhunting. As such, any game taken with these gun/bow hybrids does not constitute that same accomplishment. That is why Pope and Young will not recognize game taken with these machines and why they put limits on compound bows and devices. If you want to make it that easy, why bother? You may as well just use a gun.
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[font=arial]P.S. I am not adverse to taking on more students if it will help you get your mind right. As long as I am educating woods walker, I might as well help the rest of you out.[/font][/align]
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69Viking
 
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RE: When you really think about it

Postby 69Viking » Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:10 am

ORIGINAL: Squirrelhawker

Hey, all you gun hunters, remember, pulling the trigger, that is the heart of deer shooting. That one's all mine. You can use it if ya want


So no need to aim or control your beathing to steady the shot? Wow, I would never have known, thanks Squirrelhawker for that wonderful insight!

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