Blind vs Tree Stand

MDV WI hunter
 
Posts: 142
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:55 am

Blind vs Tree Stand

Postby MDV WI hunter » Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:20 am

I've gun hunted for a long time but this will be my first bow season in '09.  I have a great location, river, south facing slope, semi thick bush, apple trees and plenty of soybeans and corn from local farm fields.  I took a walk with my son on an early scouting trip / teaching expedition and found several trees which MAY work well for a tree stand but I'm worried about standing out.  I know that in the fall the trees will be heavy with leaves but should I be looking to build a nice ground blind or purchase a ground blind vs trying to put up a climber stand?  Is a whitetail capable to noticing a huge mass up a tree?  The diameter of the trees is really odd, either small (12" or so) or very very large, ladder stand only large.  Again, any advice would be greatly appreciated! 
 
Side note, my son is 4 and we kicked up our (his) first deer!!  He was so excited, it was great!!

User avatar
Patriot
 
Posts: 1593
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:00 am

RE: Blind vs Tree Stand

Postby Patriot » Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:57 am

Deer will look up in trees, especially if they've been spooked or shot at from that area in the past.  Your best bet is sometimes your very first time in to that tree.
 
I personally have never used a climber, but am sure that would be a great idea.
 
Ground blinds also work well.  I would suggest setting up several weeks before you plan to use it.
 
Good luck!
Paul K. "aim small, miss small"
Image

User avatar
Goose
 
Posts: 2804
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:36 pm

RE: Blind vs Tree Stand

Postby Goose » Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:20 am

Welcome MDV WI hunter,
 
The key to hunting in a tree is backround cover. I would recommend 15ft up or more and try to find good backround cover. 12ft up will work to if you got good cover. If there is no available cover you can either nail or wire some branches on the tree your gonna sit in. They also sell some stuff that is strapped to the tree and it has wire "branches" that you can bend wherever you want to.
Movement is what will get you busted. Deer don't have good depth perception thats why backround cover is important but they have excellent peripheral vision and thats why movement will be your #1 enemy.
Blinds work as well, for bowhunting I would recommend buying one of the new hub ones that you can shoot out of. Make sure its tall enough to shoot your bow. It doesn't have to be a double bull blind, there are some nice ones out there for half of the price.
The blind will also be nice if you want to bring your boy out with you.
I honestly think you'll have better luck in a tree but do what ever you feel most comfortable with and is most affordable. I like the chain in stands with climbing sticks. I've also used and like Rivers Edge 16ft ladder stands from fleet farm. They are comfortable and blend in well.
 
Jake

Genesis 27:3 Take your bow and quiver full of arrows out into the open country, and hunt some wild game.....

wack
 
Posts: 537
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 7:10 am

RE: Blind vs Tree Stand

Postby wack » Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:28 am

First, to answer your question do deer look up in trees or notice tree stands? Yes, they do. They notice but get used to empty stands. If they notice you in the "empty " stand is up to you. Millions of deer did not notice the hunter in the stands and fell victim to the arrow. If you can be still and quiet, you can bow hunt from anywhere.
Every type of stand has it's advantages and disadvantages. The more enclosed you are, the more moving around you can get away with, but maybe harder to see the deer and get the shot. The more open you are, the easier it is to get the shot but also easier for the deer to catch you moving. A permanent stand in a good location might fill tags every year, but may never produce that trophy buck. Before putting up permanent stands, I'd use ground blinds, ladder stands and my tree climber first. There will be times and places for each. One of my favorite pieces of equipment is my big tree umbrella. It's kept me dry in permanent stands, ladder stands, and used with my tree climber. I've also used it for a ground blind many times successfully. Believe me, I've put up my umbrella and shot many deer that did not notice me or my umbrella. Once you start getting out there and start seeing deer move around, you'll want to be able to adapt to the movement. You'll want stands that hunt a west wind, a south wind and north and east winds. When those crops get harvested, you'll want to adapt to other food sources. Early season stands you'll need a stand with good viability late season you're looking for any cover at all. Some days it'll be too crunchy to get in certain stands quietly, some days too wet or icy for other stands, every day will bring a new reason to try something different. It's just part of the sickness. lolI guess the cheapest way to get started would be good camo, a small chair and a tree umbrella used to either hide behind, or keep you dry. Depending on the tree's, I'd would like to start with a climber but if the tree's aren't right, either a ladder stand or hang on stand with climbing sticks. If no trees, a pop up blind or tripod. I have everything but a tripod blind and still use my little chair and umbrella quite often.
American by birth, hunter by choice.

User avatar
Fish
 
Posts: 235
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:25 am

RE: Blind vs Tree Stand

Postby Fish » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:48 am

For bow hunting, I much rather be in a tree.  Getting close to the deer is the easy part, pulling the bow back is the challenge.   I will not shoot over 25 yards.  When your on the ground, more small trees and branches are in the way since you are shooting flat.  But I would recommend being over 20 ft up.  At 15', especially ridge hunting, you can be at eye level.  I didn't believe in being really high until I sat in this guys perm stand, well over 30-35 ft(big pine tree w/platform).  The deer I saw never saw, heard or smelt me.  So I try to get up at least 25'.  If you notice hunting shows, they are way up there.  I've never been detected when over 25'.  I also swear by safty harnesses, in fact, my old stand I used two.  It was a port platform stand and I used screw in pegs to climb up.  Once I got within 6', I would snap a rock climber claps until I was seated in my stand.  It was a good 30' up there and named the stand "death from above"

User avatar
Patriot
 
Posts: 1593
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:00 am

RE: Blind vs Tree Stand

Postby Patriot » Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:37 am

One additional comment on ground blinds.  Mine are not tall enough to shoot from while standing, so I need to practice quite a bit while shooting from my knees.
 
Be sure to practice from real hunting angles and situations if at all possible.
Paul K. "aim small, miss small"
Image

MDV WI hunter
 
Posts: 142
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:55 am

RE: Blind vs Tree Stand

Postby MDV WI hunter » Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:07 am

Great dialogue, thank you.  <But I would recommend being over 20 ft up.  At 15', especially ridge hunting, you can be at eye level.> That's the exact problem I would be having as this is a valley with a small stream at the base.  I didn't realize that "sane" people climbed 20ft+ for hunting but you can bet I'm going to give it a shot!!!  I'm used to ground blinds but only using a rifle so some pertinent practice with a bow might be in order..  I never considered actually making branches but that's a great idea.
 
I'm compiling my different stand sites and will be able to incorporate most of the info discussed in this thread.  Again, thank you for the advice.  Anybody know how to make the season come faster??
 
Side note: bow just arrived, will pick up later this week!

User avatar
Fish
 
Posts: 235
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:25 am

RE: Blind vs Tree Stand

Postby Fish » Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:08 am

MDV WI hunter, I don't know how exactly sane I am.  I definately like to be high but on many properties I hunt, trees are not large enough to get up that high.  So I work w/what I have.  I first pattern the deer, if I can find the perfect tree, great.  If not, I don't substitute a poor tree to be close to the trail.  I will then find the perfect tree and try to work deer to me.  If all else fails, I'll sit close to trail but as little shooting lane as possible, hidden as much as possible.
 
I prefer to use a portable platform w/ screw in steps or port. ladder.  I use my climber as a last resort, I just don't like the sweat and noise going up and down.  I like a big oak, elm anything with large branches.  One stand I had was perfect, main trunk of tree branched out into three large limbs about 25' up.  I nestled in this crevase, the large limbs and branches along with my height, made it impossible for a deer to see me but gave the best shooting I ever had.  It also had very think ground cover which made the deer concentrate on getting thru rather than looking up.
 
Just remember two things about being up that high.  1. Always, always use as much safety equipment as possible....live to hunt another day.  Don't go up past your comfort zone either.  2. You must practice shooting at that height, it is different.  I very seldom practice flat shooting w/my bow.  I know my pins are dead on, I will always practice on a roof just to get my bearings on my angles and trajectory.
 
And finally, it is easy to get close to deer.  The trick is to being able to pull back your bow comfortably and quietly, w/o being seen  And to be able to take a clean shot.  Too many hunters try to hunt beyond their means.  This brings up another point, while I am ranting.
 
Too many get bent out of shape with arrow speed, overdraw, cams, poundage, etc...  How far does a person need to shoot thru the deer?  Shooting 400 fps doesn't mean a thing if you can't pull a bow back w/o the deer seeing you.  When I decided to get real serious w/bow hunting.  I looked for the smoothest bow I could find.  It's an old bow w/80% letoff.  I chose wheels verses cams(I don't like the break point).  Kept poundage around 60.  It still was a fast bow BUT I could smoothly pull it back while aiming at the deer and hold my draw forever.  Match the arrows and broadhead weight to the bow by shooting thru paper.  Well, I'm off subject so I'll stop before I get talking about WHU.  lol

wack
 
Posts: 537
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 7:10 am

RE: Blind vs Tree Stand

Postby wack » Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:11 am

There are some real disadvantages from climbing up so high. It doesn't do you a whole lot of good to get up 25' or higher if you can not practice shooting from that height. Shooting down hill, your sight pins will be different, your arrow will fly flatter, your vital area and angle to the vitals will be different and the higher you climb the more tree sway you could encounter from the wind. Air currents can be more severe in the tops of trees then on the ground and it can be really hard to see during early season and every shot you take or get, you've added 25' of distance between you and your target. Even a 5 yard shot is "far" away. Part of the fun and challenge of bow hunting is getting close and being sneaky enough to get to full draw. You do not want to kill everything you see, but you can still get that rush. Getting to full draw on an animal and not shooting is just as good of rush and as good of a hunting day you can get. You get you high, with out all the work and mess. lol
  Another thing to think about is what type of bow sight are you going to use? Multiple pin? Single fixed pin, single adjustable pin? Pendulum? Each of these presents different qualities that require consideration and how you plan to hunt is part of that.
 From what you described, if someone said give you 1 piece of advise to make you the best rookie bow hunter you could be, that 1 thing I'd tell you is get a Predator IV pendulum sight.  It would take me 10 pages to tell you why and compare all the different sights. It's the 1 reason I was able to take 6 deer my 1st year with 7 shots. The 7th wasn't the sights fault.
 Trying to make this short. The pendulum has only 1 pin. The pendulum automatically adjusts that pin to dead on from 0 out to 35-45 yards depending on your arrow speed. It also adjusts for your shot angle automatically so the 1 pin is still dead on shooting from the ground or anywhere from ground up to 30' high. All you need to know is if your target is within your max range (35-45 yards) After that, there's no need for a $400 computerized range finder, don't need to know how high off the ground you are, you don't need to decide what pin to put on your target, no yardage markers on the ground, forget all that and concentrate on the shot. To set this sight up, you have to do some climbing. It forces you to shoot from up high, 15 feet recommended for set up. (My garage roof is perfect.) This also prevents a rookie from making his first tree stand shooting at deer instead of targets. If you follow the directions, and spend the summer shooting from every range and height you can, you will build the confidence to hunt and shoot from any stand any place, any time. Hunting ridges and slopes made easy. When you are confident in yourself and equipment, then you'll know when you are ready to hunt.
 While you are shooting from the roof or 15' tall stand, get a 3d deer to shoot at (with broad heads). Shoot to find the vitals and learn the angles to them. You'll be able to hit a 1" sticker dot from about anywhere, the next step, which is harder, is to hit the heart and lungs, without hitting heavy bones first. A big difference than hunting with a rifle or slug gun. Stay off that shoulder. To be ready for next season, you've got a lot of work ahead. Break in the new bow, a couple hundred shots, get it re tuned up, sighted in. You'll need a consistent supply of arrows and a way to refletch them consistently as needed.  If you're going to use the Predator IV, you'll need to know what speed your arrows are flying at, and you need to know and practice with your choice of broad head. I only use field tips at the bow shop and local range because they make me. 99% Of my shooting is with broad heads. You don't have much time and there's always something that goes wrong. Knots loosen, peeps move, I dropped a new bow from my tree stand, ect.. Come July you wont be able to practice in below freezing temps, and dressed like a mummy. Welcome to the sickness. lol
 Good luck.
 
American by birth, hunter by choice.

User avatar
Fish
 
Posts: 235
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:25 am

RE: Blind vs Tree Stand

Postby Fish » Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:24 pm

A 15 yard shot is a 15 yard shot.  In fact, you have to aim lower than from a horizontal position.  I rather not plagurize but it is much easier to just give this information:
 
 
The largest single problem tree-stand hunters grapple with is learning how to compensate for downward arrow flight. An arrow always hits higher than normal on downward shots because gravity has less effect on its trajectory. This means you must aim lower than normal for killing hits. Hitting much lower depends on several factors, including the speed of your arrow, the angle of your shot, and the distance to your target. As a general rule, you should aim for the horizontal distance to an animal. In other words, a deer standing ten yards from the base of your tree-stand tree requires a ten-yard shot - even if actual shooting range is 15 yards. Some bowhunters pace off level distances around a stand to predetermine shooting yardages from the base of their trees.
 
And the link: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3197/is_n12_v34/ai_8331121

Next

Return to Wisconsin

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests