Blind vs Tree Stand

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Goose
 
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RE: Blind vs Tree Stand

Postby Goose » Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:40 pm

I'll also add that if you are using a rangefinder range a tree horizontal from your position if your in a tree. That will have the same effect of ranging from the ground.
I use 3 pins and wouldn't change.
Jake

Genesis 27:3 Take your bow and quiver full of arrows out into the open country, and hunt some wild game.....

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Jdbllung
 
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RE: Blind vs Tree Stand

Postby Jdbllung » Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:47 pm

Excellent advice wack!
Happiness is a good blood trail! Jeremy W.

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Centralwisconsinland
 
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RE: Blind vs Tree Stand

Postby Centralwisconsinland » Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:22 am

MDV WI hunter,
 
Excellent thread,  This is what makes this forum great, hunters willing to share with others.  Good imput from everyone.  This is my 2 cents.  If I am bow hunting I want to be in a tree.  I used a climber for years (an original Loggy), it kept me mobile, playing the wind. Never went much higher than 20 ft. ALWAYS used a safety harness.  The climber made some noise going up th tree, but I saw a lot of deer within 5-10 minutes of get settled (always thought the noise curiosity tree rubbing brought them in). Now I use 15' ladder stands STILL use a safety harness.  The reason for the switch, my age and my flexibility. Now I have ladder stands at the trees that I used to climb. I have purchased 6 stands from Menards over the past 3 years, 2-2 person and 4 singles all are 15' with shooting rails.  Watching the sales they range for $90.00 for the double, and $70.00 for the sinlges. They do have 4' extentions if you feel the need for more height.  They are made in China so the does not help the trade deficit, but that's another thread. 
 
MDV, if your choice would be a ladder stand think about the double, that would allow you and your son a chance to share the stand in the future.
 
If you choose a tree stand, Always use a safety harness, pick a tree that breaks up your outline.  I try to pick a tree the has a pine tree growing near that breaks your outline up, or hunt out of a pine tree ( I try to stay out of pine trees because of all the pitch).  Consider prevailing winds on  stand placement. Know your limitations, height of stand, trajectory of your shot, yardage of your shot.
And finally Practice...Practice...Practice.
 
It's easier to do a job right the first time than to explain why you didn't.

MDV WI hunter
 
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RE: Blind vs Tree Stand

Postby MDV WI hunter » Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:05 am

Has anybody tried the ladder stands with the "built in" blinds?  I have seen several at Cabelas and was wondering if they look like blinds or will actually blend.  Maybe that's a rhetorical question and depends on the amount of work you put in to "brushing in" the blind. 
 
Again, great dialogue.  Funny you should mention tree stand shooting.  I was in a climber about 15 ft up or so using a .30-06 with a 9 power scope.  I glassed a nice buck walking towards me in some dense cover.  I had time to rest the gun on a branch, bring him in nice and close with my scope only to overcompensate the distance and missed over his back.  I then got to watch him run away laughing at me!!  My point, I never took the time to practice shooting from angles which gave me a false sense of distance...  Lastly, THANK YOU to everyone for the family orientation that hunting provides.  Numerous times I've heard mention of how to include my son (and daughter when she's old enough) in my hunting adventures.  I only hope that everyone shares the same passion for educating our youth.   I not only teach him the aspects of hunting but also surviving in the wild.  Any Survivorman fans??  Check out Les Stroud if you haven't...
 
 

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Fish
 
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RE: Blind vs Tree Stand

Postby Fish » Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:37 am

MDV, although I'm more in tune w/7 mag ballistics since I reload them.  You shouldn't concern yourself much about trajectory and angles with a 30-06.  Depending on what load you shoot and what distance your sighted in at, your gun will shoot pretty flat to 200 yards.  For example, shooting an average factory load of 175 grains should produce about 2700 FPS velocity at the muzzle and sighted in at 50 yards(bull) you would .2" high at 100,   -3.7" at 200, -14.2" at 300.  To the reloaders out there, obviously these are not exact figures as I pull it out of Hornady.

In other words, put the crosshairs on the bread basket and pull the trigger.  In WI, you'll not find too many 300 yard shots.  Don't concern yourself with wind variance or exact distance.  Jerking or flinching when you shoot will more likely cause your miss than distance and wind at 300.

For me, my beloved Ruger 7mm mag bolt, 3x9 leopold VX3, 162 gr boat tail SST.  Longest shot was in WY at about 550 yards(paced).  Not bragging as I'll include this info.  Took 9 shots before I hit this muley.  War zone, baby!!!!

wack
 
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RE: Blind vs Tree Stand

Postby wack » Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:51 am

I love watching Survivorman. lol I sit there and yell at my TV but he never listens and usually goes hungry because he doesn't listen to me. lmao I watched him yesterday and he was trying to fish with a spring that was hook shaped on both ends." Les, sharpen the hooks! You're multi tool! File the hooks man!" lol At least he sharpened a stick.....

 Reading the response by Fish drives home my point for using the pendulum sight.

 " A 15 yard shot is a 15 yard shot.  In fact, you have to aim lower than from a horizontal position."

Which means not all 15 yard shots are the same,.....unless you use a Predator IV sight.

"The largest single problem tree-stand hunters grapple with is learning how to compensate for downward arrow flight. An arrow always hits higher than normal on downward shots because gravity has less effect on its trajectory. This means you must aim lower than normal for killing hits. Hitting much lower depends on several factors, including the speed of your arrow, the angle of your shot, and the distance to your target. As a general rule, you should aim for the horizontal distance to an animal. In other words, a deer standing ten yards from the base of your tree-stand tree requires a ten-yard shot - even if actual shooting range is 15 yards. Some bowhunters pace off level distances around a stand to predetermine shooting yardages from the base of their trees."
 
Spoken like a true multiple pin sight user. lol Yardage markers, rangefinders," aiming for a horizontal distance to an animal"

STOP IT! You're making my head hurt! You sound like my bow hunting mentor who has 20 years MORE bow hunting experience than I do yet he still misses deer because he over compensated and shot under or under compensated and shot over the back, and I wish I had a dollar for every bow hunter who said, I used the wrong yardage pin. I'd be a mighty rich man. My mentor always said, "too many moving parts". In 8 years it's never failed me. Then he's put ugly yardage markers all over the woods. When I swiped them, he spray painted yardages on trees. When that didn't fly with the land owner, my mentor bought a $400 rangefinder. [8|] It amazes me, and I'll never understand why most bow hunters stick with multiple pin sights, but that's just me.
 If you choose multiple pin sights, you've got plenty of experienced hunters here to help. IMHO, I started with multiple pins. 6 months of shooting every day and I still wasn't confident enough to go to an unknown height, guesstimate a yardage and hit what I was aiming at. I could hit anything with my 2nd arrow. Didn't do so well with the first arrow. One day at a sporting goods store I saw the Predator and read the package. Talk about an "AHH HAAA" moment. It all made sense. Bought it, took it home, called the number on the package, Lou the owner answered the phone and walked me step by step (I'm a lefty, everything's more complicated backwards) to get it mounted to my bow properly. Then I took it to the bow shop and had the peep installed and the bow shop guys laughed at the sight. My confidence was in the dumpster. I took it home, followed the instructions, called and emailed Lou with every question under the sky, and he answered the important questions. With in a week, I could go to any part of the slope of my garage roof and house roof, and nail a 1" sticker dot anywhere in my back yard. From my porch, back of my truck, half way up the ladder, on the ground, on 1 knee, sitting down, from the kids swing set, even standing  on 1 foot in a figure skating position, shooting strait down from the peak of my roof... Opening morning my self appointed mentor, who's never seen me shoot before put a $5 bill on a target to determine who gets first pick of stands. He also thought it would be easy money. lol From 30 yards on a slope, with a bunch of stitches and heavily bandaged, splinted broken trigger finger, I stuck Lincoln right in the ear. I knew I was ready and that confidence is important. I took the $25 ($5 each hunter) and turned down the right to pick stand out of respect. I would have never been ready had I not switched from multiple pins. Later my first bow hunting day, I got my first deer. The first of 6 that year and I tied for first for the biggest buck. I don't work for Predator, I have never even gotten a discount from Predator, I did meet Lou once at the Madison Deer Turkey Expo a few years ago. If you contact them, tell them Wack sent you, maybe someday I'll get a discount. lol It's a good American product.
American by birth, hunter by choice.

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Fish
 
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RE: Blind vs Tree Stand

Postby Fish » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:09 am

Wack, I wasn't arguing about your sight.  What I've read the Preditor is a very good sight w/very good reviews.  After reading up on it, I would be interested in it.   But the point I was commenting on was to the difference in height and distance.  Whatever sight MDV chooses, he must adjust(preditor) or compensate(pins) for shooting from above.  Your comment was to the fact you were shooting farther, the higher up you go.  To many hunters shoot over deer because they think trajectory/angle to hit vitals..they must aim high.  Aim low.
 
My father had a pendulum sight...loved it.  I use two pins but realistically only one(20 yard).  I see very little change up to 30 yards.  My uncle doesn't use a sight, he doesn't miss often.  Funny watching him shoot, doesn't make a 3" group but he hit a paper plate every time.
 
I guess the point is: use what you feel comfortable with and practice, practice, practice.
 
As for range finders, yardage marking, etc...  I don't shoot over 25 yards, my sight is good up to that and I know how far 20 yards is.  No need to mark it off.  Plus, I sighted in my bow from an elevated spot. So the 1-2" difference between 10,15,20, 25 yards makes little difference.
 
Regardless of the equipment you choose, I recommend having a reputable bow tech help you select and set up your bow.  A few things I've learned from a few archers that compete.  Use a wrist strap and stabilizer, lightly grip or shoot with an open hand...a tight grip will cause your hand to sway, fishtail or alter you arrows flight.  Don't worry about the bow dropping as the perfect flight will occur when it falls down.  If you decide to use a peep, don't worry about having the pin be perfectly dead center in the middle, let it float within the peep.  It will allow for more relaxed release and the variance is so little, your group should remain the same.  Like a guns trigger, squeeze to the point it is a surprise it released.  Always hold your draw at the same anchor point.  Set up your arrows and tips by shooting thru paper...should look like a bullet hole is its set up right.  I'm just a believer of proper arrow flight than speed or penetration.  This is just my opinion and advise, I'm sure others may differ.

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RE: Blind vs Tree Stand

Postby MDV WI hunter » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:35 am

My sight decision has been made for me, I recieved a free one from a guy here at work.  Tru Glow 7 pin fiber optic, brand new, apparently he won it at a shoot and has several as he competes.  He also works for me so maybe this was a bribe... I had better keep my eye on him!!
 
Since that miss out of my tree stand, I've shot 100's of times to ensure that i don't miss again.  It paid off this year and every year since, i shot a doe at 150 paces, she was on a full sprint as she was kicked up by the farmer next door.  One shot right in the heart, I was very happy with that one.
 
Wack you bring up a good point.  Confidence, I raced motocross for many years and I won and loss by my confidence level.  If I felt prepared, well rest, trusted my equipment, and new that I put my time in, I would do very well.  If not, I would usually fatigue quickly due to mental mistakes and too much thinking.  Same holds true with my rifle now, I practice shooting within 2 seconds. i.e. Deer, aim, shoot - within 2 seconds - I don't have to think about it anymore, it just happens.

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Goose
 
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RE: Blind vs Tree Stand

Postby Goose » Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:16 pm

About those blinds you mentioned. For gun hunting they might work great. Don't know about bow hunting though. I've heard of several people hitting their bottom limb on their stand or railing while shooting at a deer. Don't know if the stand your talking about would have this risk?
 
Another thing I would like to mention on shooting from a tree stand is that most of the problems are form related.
The best way to practice this is by getting in a elevated stand and draw back so your aiming straight in front of you get anchored and then bend at the waist to the target. You'll notice your form stays the same this way. You probably don't want to do this when your drawing on a deer but try it practicing and you'll get use to what its supposed to feel like.
No matter what angle or how your bending you should be able to draw a straight line from your bow hand through your release and out your elbow. If your form varies at all so will your shots.
 
The most critical thing when shooting your bow is form. Get that down and you'll do just fine with whatever sight's you use!
Good luck!
Jake

Genesis 27:3 Take your bow and quiver full of arrows out into the open country, and hunt some wild game.....

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Fish
 
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RE: Blind vs Tree Stand

Postby Fish » Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:15 am

I agree w/Goose.  The type of stand you use is very important.  I was using an older climber and can't tell you how many times it creaked or the band made noise.  It is difficult to find a new climber w/o a rail but I do have one.  I must sit while hunting because of legs so anything w/rails is out.  I sat on wood platforms, but cold weather makes them squeek too.  The best platform I've found is a small metal platform w/very small seat and a chain to wrap to a tree.  I'll use screw in steps or even more safe, a 15'- 20' ladder that wraps to the tree, low profile.  In order to get the height I want, I will place stand up more on a steep ridge.  So if only 15' up, the ridge will make it seem much higher over the trail.  But be careful, make sure the deer don't travel on the top side of ridge, hate  being eye level with mr big.
 
But most important, make sure your stand isn't squeeky, nothing worse than a stand squeeking in mid draw.

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