i didnt think i would see the day

[jack]

i recently had the chance to sit in on the 2008 concervation congress big game hearings.i wish i could say that i left there with a warm fuzzy feeling but instead i left with the feeling of an impending threat to the resources of this state. with the ecxeption of a few delagates most of the board tows the company(dnr) line. the night was filled with double standards and personal opinion with little thought given to the sportsmen in this state who account for 79 percent of their funding.i never thought that i would see the day where we would have all these departments and committees biologists and ecologists and select sportsmans groups trying to manage something that wasnt meant to have this much managment. if the sportsman in this state want to fix the problem with the natural resources being transformed  from something that was meant  for the sportsmen to a political tool used by the dnr they are going to have to put aside the differences that devide us and start thinking about the greater good .remember that  we have the power to make a change ;the natural resources of this state belong to the people not madison.this is not  autocratic rule if we truly want to make an impact we have to ban together or all the things that we enjoy as sportsmen and sportswomen are going to change for ever. stop being complacent stand up for your rights, get out and let your elected officials know how you feel, and remember there is one thing that the dnr understands more than anything else, and thats the power of money i for one will really have to consider if i want to support a group by buying a license in a state that does not look out for our best interests only theirs. i recently had a conversation with our states head ecologist,and i told him that i was considering hunting in another state, and he said how do you know the hunting will be better there and i said i dont but it cant possibly be worse.

[Fish]

Welcome Jack, it's kind of funny how many new people we're getting onboard after last hunt. 
 
If you haven't, read my post about what I've found out.  I knew the CC and DNR was going in this direction, nothing is going to stop them.  I've written all Sen/assembly, DNR, CC, Dept of Agri, and other groups.
 
The main response I got back was, " it is what it is".  The ONLY way for us to put a stop to this is litigation.  This was comming from a WI Senator.
 
Tell him hunting is a heck of alot better in other states, I know for a fact.
 
We MUST start something, although it would be nice, I can't fit the numbers we need to come together to fight, on my tailgate. lol

[jack]

fish... thank you for taking the time time to read my post, i agree with you i also think that this struggle will take drastic measure. i have contacted keith warnke alan crossley the dept of ag and just about every biologist in the central wisconsin area and i get the same responce ....tough. i have contacted the welch group to see what choices we might have as sportsmen, i also have access to madison from a friend of mine who was a senator and is now helping me side step some of the political BS. i have lots of head spinning info that i will post as soon as possible. i will also share as much as i can at the hunters rights coalition on jan. 10 in stevens point. i do by the way have a bill being introduced when they reconvene in jan. to address the root cause of alot of this problem. will see where that goes, as you can tell my faith in the DNR,s ability to perform their job in a fassion that truly represents the guy  paying the bills and not special interest has been DESTROYED.

[Goose]

Jack- Welcome and thanks for the post! its good to hear the stuff from the inside.
You'll find good company here. I'm not too involved in local politics mostly because I don't understand it all but there are definitely people on here that do. i look forward to your posts and maybe Ill be able to learn some more. its good to have guys like you, fish, wack,mtnman and endless others who get involved with this on the political side.

[mtnman]

Hi Jack,
The ability of any for of government to represent the guys that pay the bills is a contradiction in terms. There is no reason that  the DNR , being a branch of government would do any different. I can spend my time in the woods hunting, with out supporting those in government that would destroy us. We the sportsmen PAY for all their salaries and projects. The sooner we nip this in the bud, the less damage they can do. Better short term pain for us than long term pain for all sportsmen. How long can the state and the DNR afford to loose .

The DNR spent 544.3 million 2006-2007. In the Fish and Wildlife account of 97.4 million, 73.1% came from licenses, 6.2% from the tax on guns and ammo from the Pitman, Robertson Act. This is besides all the money that is pumped into the economy and states tax coffers by hunting generated sales, jobs, and activites.

In 2001, deer hunting alone brought in 233 million to the state and local economies. Figure about 280 million now, not inclucing licenses. Lets see the state make their budget without that extra 400 million

[jack]

thanks for the feedback guys, here are a couple things to chew on, i have been in contact with a large sportsmans group in wisconsin who are on the verge of calling on their members to boycot the 2009 deer seasons. they are only hesitant because their biggest fear his hurting the little guy who depends on that revinue to provide for his family. i agree with mtnman when he says that it is better that we all feel a pinch now or we all feel greater pain later.  it looks like i have the chance of getting another bill drafted soon, we are just trying to get the language right so it has agood chance of advancing.goose i encourage you to get involved with your local elected officials they are there to work for you,they will explain how the system work  unlike the DNR these people understand the power of numbers, rally as many people together as you can for a  common worthy cause ,ie. hunting rights and they will listen. we are now up against a political department,so we need to explore . political and legislative avenues to stop them from further deleating the resource.

[crownie]

You know what, I know a lot of hard core hunters who are extremely upset and have mentioned that they've had it and are willing to boycott a season.  Like me, deer season is *the* highlight of the year for these guys, but after this past season I'm positive that a lot of folks would *now* be willing to make a one-year sacrifice for the long-term .  So what if it is less than a 100% boycott; you don't think 50,000 or 100,000 fewer licenses wouldn't get their attention?  A boycott is probably the most effective way to get their attention and if they finally understood who's paying their salary (us) it would be SO well worth it.  We need someone web-saavy to get the ball rolling, as in a pledge sheet and a website (boycottdnr.com?).  (And truth be told, given the deer population in our neck of the woods, the odds of getting a deer are only marginally improved by actually hunting anyhow!) 

[jack]

i just want to let you guys know where i stand on a few things,because i dont want you to think that i am speeking for anyone but myself.first of all i am in this for the greater good of the resource;it is none of my business about how others hunt what they hunt or what they hunt with. i dont  want to get caught up in the details of hunting, the DNR is counting on sportsmen not being able to put aside the differences that we have when it comes to hunting,thats why most attemps at a  movement by sportsmen fail. the other thing the DNR has is they know that there is no other state that has sportsmen and sportswomen that are as passionate as we are, so i have found out that if you want them to listen you have to pick your battles carefully, it takes the right time the right place and in front of the right people if you go  after them only armed with raw emotion spitting fire and trying to discredit them on any level you will loose credibility, and because they have very little credibility left, it really is important that we keep ours. i am very tired of hunting under an authoritarian DNR, so the way i see it it is up to me and anyone of a like mind to put up or shut up.

[Fish]

Jack, there's a spot on my tailgate w/a beer anytime.  In reading your post, it sounds like you are a bit more connected than we are led to believe.  Maybe a politican or on some governing board who is not really happy with the way things are progressing.  In my correspondence with everyone, I have been told "off the record" whats happening in the capitol is cutthroat.  There are a few good guys trying to fight but everytime they attempt a bill, have support and proceed to vote....the special interest groups and other Dept threaten funding and they lose the vote needed.  It would make sense for one of these good guys to try to get support of the general public.  Now, there is no possiblity of anything passing due to the majority of democratic senator and assembly.  Our licenses are peanuts to them.
 
I have brain stormed a bunch, even to the point of trying to recall a politician.  Although, this wouldn't go thru, it would at least grab the attention of the media.  We need this attention.
 
I doubt any agreement of hunters will hold true to boycott a season.  Fall will come, leaves will turn and one by one, hunters will want to hunt.  The government knows this.
 
What we need is a champion to stand behind.  Literally impossible, financially, to organize a new group to fight this in a short time frame.  We need an existing organization, who is funded, to stand up and speak.  Kind of like Safari Club did on the late season hunts.  So if WU, WHA or safari club stand up and says "lets fight", I would join THAT group in a second.  Next week I'm called on WU to see what they came up with during their last meeting.  I've checked in with web design and it would cost $1000 just for a basic site, and this is from a friend.
 
Jack, what is the Welch group? Also, I would like to know the group that has your association.  I've been in contact with the United Sportsmen of PA and their biologist.  They have been in a legal battle for years.  I'm more than willing to give any factual information I have recieved to help this cause.
 
And I agree, we can't fight this using emotions.  The best way is to unite.  The more people, the more power we have
 
 

[jack]

fish  i am  in no way affiliated with any government body, legislative group,board,cult etc. im just extremely concerned about the direction of our natural resources,just like you.i have more to say but my computer keeps cutting off half of my posts iwill continue this conversation at a later time .....jack