The DNR is not giving up and neither should we.

highview72
 
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RE: The DNR is not giving up and neither should we.

Postby highview72 » Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:16 am

Great letter Fish. This is what needs to be done to get changes. Its going to be difficult to keep attention going the farther we get from the hunting season, but we need to keep up the pressure. If we forget about it until next year, the regs will be in place and it will be too late again. Keep writing letters and keep talking about it. Im sure most of these biologists figure we are just a group of uneducated backwoods people and that we dont have a clue what we are talking about and if they throw in a few fancy terms we might just go along with the plan. We need to show them that we know what is going on, and that we arent going to fall for their b.s excuses. We as hunters know the land and the animals far better than anyone because we are out there in the field. Keep up the fight! Your voice does make a difference.

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Fish
 
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RE: The DNR is not giving up and neither should we.

Postby Fish » Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:59 am

Here's his reply:

[font=arial]Mr.. :[/font]
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[/align][font=arial]I don't know Mr. Cunningham or what I said to insult him.  If he was a hunter who said there were no deer because of wolves, then yes he probably would fall under the category of people who are scapegoat wolves.  Anytime we try to blame the change in complex wildlife populations on one cause or single factor, we probably are scapegoating or stereotyping.  [/font]
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[/align][font=arial]We don't estimate wolf populations by any formula, but determine numbers by actually counting wolves (from the air in radio-collared packs) or counting their tracks in the snow. We probably miss a few of the loners and drifters, but count most of the wolves that live in established packs.  Our count is the minimum number in mid-winter.  The population doubles in the spring and settles back down again over the summer and fall.  Our count between winter 2007 and 2008 was about the same at ~540 wolves, but most of the year their would be more wolves in the woods.[/font]
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[/align][font=arial]We are not denying wolves getting down to IL, and have reports of wolves traveling as far as Missouri and Indiana (within 12 miles of the Ohio border).  Wolves can travel 100s of miles from their homes when they are dispersing.  But these dispersers are not setting up territories, finding mates, or raising pups in these areas.  They mostly just keep on moving until they die along the way.  Wolves that establish territories and are successful raising pups mostly live in heavily forested areas.[/font]
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[/align][font=arial]We hope to be managing wolves soon as well but during most of wolf recovery in the state, they were listed as federally endangered, and DNR had very little control on their management.  We are hoping that will change in the future. I agree, the northwoods and central forest are great places for wolves, but packs moving into farm areas or residential areas need to be controlled.  We hope we have authority to manage them in the near future.[/font]
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[/align][font=arial]good day,[/font]
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[/align][font=arial]http://dnr.wi.gov/org/land/er/mammals/wolf/[/font]
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[font=webdings]P[/font][font="ms shell dlg"][/font] [font="brush script mt"]Adrian P. Wydeven[/font]
[font="comic sans ms"]Mammalian Ecologist/ Conservation Biologist[/font]
[font="comic sans ms"]875 South 4th Ave.[/font]
[font="comic sans ms"]Bureau of Endangered Resources[/font]
[font="comic sans ms"]Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources[/font]
[font="comic sans ms"]Park Falls, WI 54552[/font]
[font="comic sans ms"]([/font][font=wingdings]([/font][font="comic sans ms"])[/font][font="ms shell dlg"] [/font][font="ms shell dlg"]phone:[/font]      [font="comic sans ms"](715) 762-1363[/font]
[font="comic sans ms"]([/font][font=wingdings]([/font][font="comic sans ms"])[/font][font="ms shell dlg"][/font] [font="ms shell dlg"]fax:[/font][font="ms shell dlg"][/font]        [font="comic sans ms"](715) 762-4348[/font]
[font="comic sans ms"]([/font][font=wingdings]+[/font][font="comic sans ms"])[/font][font="ms shell dlg"][/font] [font="ms shell dlg"]e-mail:[/font]     [font="comic sans ms"]Adrian.Wydeven@Wisconsin.gov[/font]
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Fish
 
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RE: The DNR is not giving up and neither should we.

Postby Fish » Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:01 am

Here's my reponse and opinion:
 
[font=arial]Adrian,[/font][/align][font=arial][/font] [/align][font=arial]I really appreciate your response.  I'm forwarding this information to my group of fellow hunters who have raised concerns about the wolf population.  I agree with you that the wolves are not a major contributing factor to the deer population.  Although wolves, coyote and bear do effect the deer herd,   We are more concerned about the over harvest.[/font][/align][font=arial][/font] [/align][font=arial]I'm not sure if you had read the article but here is the portion pertaining to you and Mr Cunningham:  [/font][/align][font=arial][/font] [/align][font=arial]    "Jim Cunningham of Chetek in Barron County, a deer hunter for 30 years, splits his time each fall between land near his home and farther north near Mason in       Bayfield County. [/font][/align]
[font=arial]The time he spends in tree stands, walking the land and the images he sees on trail cameras has convinced Cunningham that the predator population is higher than the DNR says it is. [/font]
[font=arial]"I see 50 wolf tracks for every one deer track," Cunningham said. "The wolves have changed our hunt." [/font]
[font=arial]Adrian Wydeven, the DNR's wolf ecologist, discounted the role of wolves, saying that those who blame them "are really grasping for a scapegoat." [/font]
[font=arial]As you can see,  the way the newspaper artistically cut and pasted quotes made your statement appear like a direct response to his statement.  If this is true, I apologize for any offensive statements.[/font]
[font=arial]Although, we may have a difference of opinion on the true wolf population.  I  agree that we( the State of Wisconsin) should be able to manage the wolf population as we reintroduced them back in Wisconsin.  It is unfortunate individuals from out of our state and unfamiliar with our efforts, have hindered our  management of this situation.[/font]
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Fish
 
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RE: The DNR is not giving up and neither should we.

Postby Fish » Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:20 am

So after his response, I feel a bit better.  It appeared to be the JS way of artistic journalism by cut and paste of the quotes.  He does admit the numbers are probably off, but I'm sure they are only watching the packs that were planted.  It was very interesting when they say they double in spring and summer.  I wonder how they die off.  he does admit they are everywhere.
 
I don't know guys, although wolve take their share of deer, they are not any more of a problem as bear and coyote.  Overharvest is our biggest problem.  I feel this guy is honest in his reply and as far as he is concerned, 500 wolves are enough.  He just can't do anything because of the Fed's decision.
 
I'll let everyone read between the lines but I do feel the wolves are a problem but not anymore than coyote and bear.  Our biggest problem with the deer herd is over harvest.

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Fish
 
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RE: The DNR is not giving up and neither should we.

Postby Fish » Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:39 am

FYI, here is his 2nd response:

[font=arial][/font]
[/align][font=arial]Fish:[/font]
 
[/align][font=arial]I was commenting on general concerns about hunters, not the specific observations of Mr. Cunningham.  I was not told  the specifics of Mr. Cunningham's observation, but his observations do seem to be an exaggeration. Fifty wolves would generally cover an area of  500 mi2, so I doubt Mr. Cunningham hunted that big of an area, but he could have seen the tracks of 5 wolves in 10 locations; wolves do have large home range areas.  You could cover 10 miles and still be in the same wolf territory.[/font]
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[/align][font=arial]I did tell the reporter wolves are factors, but just one of many factors including weather, crops, acorn crops, baiting patterns, recent harvests, and other predators.  [/font]
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[/align][font=arial]But please note, wolves were not reintroduced to WI, they got here on their own.[/font]
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[/align][font=arial]Thanks,[/font]
[/align][font=arial]Adrian[/font]
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Gafrage
 
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RE: The DNR is not giving up and neither should we.

Postby Gafrage » Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:37 am

There is no doubt they did get here on their own.  However, there is also no doubt, that we (WDNR) helped supplement that population by moving wolves from other states to our northwoods.  If they came back on their own, great, I still don't see the purpose of us helping establish a bigger population.  Let nature takes it's course.  Nothing good has come from our re-supplement of the wolf population.  The ones that came on their own were doing just fine.  They could have continued to populate themselves.  What a come back that would have been, right?

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Fish
 
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RE: The DNR is not giving up and neither should we.

Postby Fish » Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:38 am

Hey guys, I have the official report from the game wardens to the NRB sent to me from the Chief Warden, Randy Stark.  This is not the one published to the public but directly to Warnke and NRB.  It is a long document and in .pfd format.  If everyone would like to read it, will this forum allow me to put it on?  If so, tell me how to do it
 
I can't explain how important it is to write to the DNR and State officials.  If you leave out emotion, talk fact, state your point and keep an open mind.....you will get your answers and your voice will be heard.  The letter I sent was in rebuttle to the DNR statement of cold weather, lack of hunters and our poor effort was the reason the harvest numbers were down.  If you really read into his reply and read the report, at least I get the feeling from his position on down, they are on our side.
 
Here's his reply:
 
[font=arial] [/font]
Hello Mr. (Fish)[/align]I was forwarded a copy of the message you sent tot he Wildlife Website.  Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts, and the opportunity to respond.[font="times new roman, serif"][color=#000000] [/font][/color][/align][font="arial, sans-serif"]The comments in the report and at the NRB where no way intended to blame hunters for the low deer kill. I'm hopeful people do not take it that way, because they were not intended to convey that in any way, and that is not what was said. The observations noted in the report were merely relaying some changes in hunting practices that wardens have been seeing. It's not a "good" or "bad" thing, just noticing a difference.[color=#000000]  I have attached a copy of the actual report in its entirety for you to review to get the entire context.  The observations that wardens made are on page (9) for you to review first hand.    [/color][/font][/align][font="arial, sans-serif"][font="arial, sans-serif"][/font][/font][/align]One thing we as wardens have learned over years of experience is that the deer season exists at the intersection of biological factors (deer populations, etc) and social factors (hunter practices, things that influence hunter behavior like access, new equipment, baiting, age structure of our hunters, hunter perceptions and attitudes, etc). The convergence and interplay of these factors on a statewide basis tend to shape the both the actual outcome in terms of deer killed and often perception of the season. Sometimes seasons can have their own "personality" based on these factors. As wardens we feel we have an obligation to report some of the "social side" of the season. [/align]Since we are the closest DNR employees to the hunters in the field, and we talk to thousands of hunters in all corners of the state, we get a lot of feedback. We try to communicate that feedback so it can be factored into the overall equation in assessing things as we go forward in the future. [/align]Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.  It's clear you care deeply about our resources and the future of hunting. Feel free to give a call if you'd like to discuss further.[font="times new roman, serif"][color=#000000]  [/font][font="arial, sans-serif"]I can be reached at 608-266-1115.[/font][/color][/align]Take care and have a happy holiday season. [/align] [/align] [/align][font="webdings, serif"]P[font="ms shell dlg, sans-serif"][color=#000000][size=2] [/font][font="brush script mt, cursive"]Randy J. Stark[/font][/size][/color][/font][/align][font="comic sans ms, cursive"]Chief Warden[/font][/align][font="comic sans ms, cursive"]Bureau of Law Enforcement[/font][/align][font="comic sans ms, cursive"]Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources[/font][/align][font="comic sans ms, cursive"]([font=wingdings][size=2]([/font])[font="ms shell dlg, sans-serif"] [/font][font="ms shell dlg, sans-serif"]phone:      [/font](608) 266-1115[/size][/font][/align][font="comic sans ms, cursive"]([font=wingdings][size=2]([/font])[font="ms shell dlg, sans-serif"] [/font][font="ms shell dlg, sans-serif"]fax:[/font][font="ms shell dlg, sans-serif"]         [/font](608) 266-3696[/size][/font][/align][font="comic sans ms, cursive"]([font=wingdings][size=2]+[/font])[font="ms shell dlg, sans-serif"] [/font][font="ms shell dlg, sans-serif"]e-mail:     [/font]Randall.Stark@dnr.state.wi.us[/size][/font][/align][font="comic sans ms, cursive"][/font] [/align][font="comic sans ms, cursive"]"The future is created first in the mind, then in the will and next in activity. The future is not some place we are going to, but one we [/font][/align][font="comic sans ms"][/font] [/align][font="comic sans ms"][/font] [/align]

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Goose
 
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RE: The DNR is not giving up and neither should we.

Postby Goose » Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:37 pm

Great stuff Fish! Thanks!
Jake

Genesis 27:3 Take your bow and quiver full of arrows out into the open country, and hunt some wild game.....

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